DOUG AND 9/11
- Thread starter SEAN
- Start date
davetheflyer
New Member
Tony, Just BTW, Saddam didn't keep al-Qaeda out of Iraq. It has been noted before and after the war that an al-Qaeda training camp was located in Iraq. I can speculate that a lot of the guerrillas that we now face may be from that camp.
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My main purpose here was to address the idea of changing the terrorist mindset. While I think that is a great idea, I'm not sure how to go about it.
9-11 disproved a popular misconception that many of world's violent crime problems could be solved by spreading around cash. In contrast to that philosophy, the majority of the hijackers were of Saudi origin, one of the richest countries in the world. They didn't attack us because they were poor and we were rich.
As I sit in my hotel room, I've been watching the coverage of Yassir Arafat's speech in response to Israel's plans to deport him in response to continued Hamas attacks (which, by the way, Israel says that they can directly link Arafat to).
I have zero hopes for a negotiated settlement in the Middle East. These people (by which I mean radical Islamists) do not understand or respect diplomacy. I can extend that statement to many other people currently and formerly of this world.
Short of giving in to their demands, the only way to effectively deal with these people is through force. I rule out giving in to their demands on the grounds that it will be viewed as weakness and will only encourage further terrorism (ironically, many of the doves erroneously think that force will encourage further terrorism). That leaves force as our only viable option.
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My main purpose here was to address the idea of changing the terrorist mindset. While I think that is a great idea, I'm not sure how to go about it.
9-11 disproved a popular misconception that many of world's violent crime problems could be solved by spreading around cash. In contrast to that philosophy, the majority of the hijackers were of Saudi origin, one of the richest countries in the world. They didn't attack us because they were poor and we were rich.
As I sit in my hotel room, I've been watching the coverage of Yassir Arafat's speech in response to Israel's plans to deport him in response to continued Hamas attacks (which, by the way, Israel says that they can directly link Arafat to).
I have zero hopes for a negotiated settlement in the Middle East. These people (by which I mean radical Islamists) do not understand or respect diplomacy. I can extend that statement to many other people currently and formerly of this world.
Short of giving in to their demands, the only way to effectively deal with these people is through force. I rule out giving in to their demands on the grounds that it will be viewed as weakness and will only encourage further terrorism (ironically, many of the doves erroneously think that force will encourage further terrorism). That leaves force as our only viable option.
davetheflyer
New Member
Tony and R2F,
Yeah, I guess the only thing to do is stay the course and see what happens. Regardless of your opinions before the war, I hope that you can understand that if we pull out now, things would be worse than if we had never gone in at all. That's what scares me about some of the Democratic candidates.
R2F, I can see the avatar on my computer. Is anyone else not seeing it?
Yeah, I guess the only thing to do is stay the course and see what happens. Regardless of your opinions before the war, I hope that you can understand that if we pull out now, things would be worse than if we had never gone in at all. That's what scares me about some of the Democratic candidates.
R2F, I can see the avatar on my computer. Is anyone else not seeing it?
EatSleepFly
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Is anyone else not seeing it?
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I'm not either. Just that infamous red X.
Is anyone else not seeing it?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not either. Just that infamous red X.
ready2fly
Well-Known Member
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Regardless of your opinions before the war, I hope that you can understand that if we pull out now, things would be worse than if we had never gone in at all.
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Totally agree with you there.
Unfortunately, it's a rock and a hard place. We stay, we're bound to tick a handful off; we pull out now - we are truly in a world of trouble.
Regardless of your opinions before the war, I hope that you can understand that if we pull out now, things would be worse than if we had never gone in at all.
[/ QUOTE ]
Totally agree with you there.
Unfortunately, it's a rock and a hard place. We stay, we're bound to tick a handful off; we pull out now - we are truly in a world of trouble.
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R2F, I can see the avatar on my computer. Is anyone else not seeing it?
[/ QUOTE ]
First, WELCOME BACK DAVE!
Secondly, well the link to your photo shows this:
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Compaq7792DMT/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/Dojet1.jpg
Go to "My Home" > "Personal Information, email, password, etc" and the link to upload your picture halfway down the screen (depending on how large/small your monitor is)
R2F, I can see the avatar on my computer. Is anyone else not seeing it?
[/ QUOTE ]
First, WELCOME BACK DAVE!
Secondly, well the link to your photo shows this:
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Compaq7792DMT/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/Dojet1.jpg
Go to "My Home" > "Personal Information, email, password, etc" and the link to upload your picture halfway down the screen (depending on how large/small your monitor is)
Davetheflyer,
Yes you are right. There were al qaeda training camps in Iraq prior to our invasion. But the majority of the media was misleading and failed to mention that the training camps were located in the northern parts of Iraq which was controlled by the KURDS. These were the same Kurds we were protecting from Sadaam. The same Kurds that we call freedom fighters in Iraq we call terrorists in Turkey even though they're fighting for the same thing (cultural autonomy).....Funny, how things work.........
Yes you are right. There were al qaeda training camps in Iraq prior to our invasion. But the majority of the media was misleading and failed to mention that the training camps were located in the northern parts of Iraq which was controlled by the KURDS. These were the same Kurds we were protecting from Sadaam. The same Kurds that we call freedom fighters in Iraq we call terrorists in Turkey even though they're fighting for the same thing (cultural autonomy).....Funny, how things work.........
tonyw
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Tony and R2F,
Yeah, I guess the only thing to do is stay the course and see what happens. Regardless of your opinions before the war, I hope that you can understand that if we pull out now, things would be worse than if we had never gone in at all. That's what scares me about some of the Democratic candidates.
[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely. Now that we're in Iraq, pulling out before the job is finished is not an option. Yes, it will cost us hundreds of billions and hundreds of American lives, but now that we are there, we must finish.
I'd have preferred that we not go in there in the first place, but that's water under the bridge now.
I just hope we can finish the job quickly so that we spend the least amount of human and financial capital there.
Tony and R2F,
Yeah, I guess the only thing to do is stay the course and see what happens. Regardless of your opinions before the war, I hope that you can understand that if we pull out now, things would be worse than if we had never gone in at all. That's what scares me about some of the Democratic candidates.
[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely. Now that we're in Iraq, pulling out before the job is finished is not an option. Yes, it will cost us hundreds of billions and hundreds of American lives, but now that we are there, we must finish.
I'd have preferred that we not go in there in the first place, but that's water under the bridge now.
I just hope we can finish the job quickly so that we spend the least amount of human and financial capital there.
davetheflyer
New Member
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-03-30-niraq-camp_x.htm
Specifically, the last paragraph:
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Kurds established an autonomous region in northern Iraq after the 1991 Gulf War, beyond the control of the Baghdad government and protected by U.S.-British air patrols. Islamic militants control pockets of territory around the Zagros Mountains on the Iranian border.
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The Islamic militants were in a pocket of territory that the Kurds did not control. The Kurds helped destroy the camp.
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I uploaded the avatar again.
Specifically, the last paragraph:
[ QUOTE ]
Kurds established an autonomous region in northern Iraq after the 1991 Gulf War, beyond the control of the Baghdad government and protected by U.S.-British air patrols. Islamic militants control pockets of territory around the Zagros Mountains on the Iranian border.
[/ QUOTE ]
The Islamic militants were in a pocket of territory that the Kurds did not control. The Kurds helped destroy the camp.
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I uploaded the avatar again.
davetheflyer,
the majority of those islamic militants in question are Iraqi Kurds and non-Iraqi arabs. Within the Iraqi Kurdish area there are two different Kurdish parties (one more secular the other more fanatic) and after the 1991 Gulf War they've been having skirmishes with each other in order to gain political power within the Kurdish region which was no longer under Baghdads (sp.) control. I think the difference is that one group consists of Sunni Muslims and the others are Shiites. Before the conflict in Iraq, a somewhat uneasy truce between the two was reached. But there are some fantatics that don't support the truce and are a pretty nasty bunch, that hate the US and wish to establish an islamic theocracy in "Kurdistan" (similar to the one in Iran) at any cost.....
the majority of those islamic militants in question are Iraqi Kurds and non-Iraqi arabs. Within the Iraqi Kurdish area there are two different Kurdish parties (one more secular the other more fanatic) and after the 1991 Gulf War they've been having skirmishes with each other in order to gain political power within the Kurdish region which was no longer under Baghdads (sp.) control. I think the difference is that one group consists of Sunni Muslims and the others are Shiites. Before the conflict in Iraq, a somewhat uneasy truce between the two was reached. But there are some fantatics that don't support the truce and are a pretty nasty bunch, that hate the US and wish to establish an islamic theocracy in "Kurdistan" (similar to the one in Iran) at any cost.....
