Don't trust the ATO

Trojan said:
Exactly. Way more than the President, or a heart surgeon, brain surgeon, any kind of surgeon really, a pilot, a soldier, clergyman, etc.

/sarcasm
Click to expand...

And you wouldnt expect the president/any surgeon/pilot to get where they are without some sort of education and in my "humblest" of opinions, learning how to say "would you like fries with that" is NOT a formal education.

Forgive me for being an ass but controllers are responsible for more lives than ANY doctor/soldier/pilot/clergyman period. Hell, for that matter, how much responsibility does a clergyman have? No one's life hangs in the balance of every decision of some religious dude.

You're trying to be a smartass and its only coming off as being ignorant.

My $.02
 
ATCtower said:
And you wouldnt expect the president/any surgeon/pilot to get where they are without some sort of education and in my "humblest" of opinions, learning how to say "would you like fries with that" is NOT a formal education.

Forgive me for being an ass but controllers are responsible for more lives than ANY doctor/soldier/pilot/clergyman period. Hell, for that matter, how much responsibility does a clergyman have? No one's life hangs in the balance of every decision of some religious dude.

You're trying to be a smartass and its only coming off as being ignorant.

My $.02
Click to expand...

You're kind of a high-strung dude. And I don't appreciate your tone. So let me change mine. . .

Your "$.02" aren't worth s h ! t.

Controllers HELP to prevent collisions, but aren't solely responsible for safe air travel. Heck, some airspace is uncontrolled.

Furthermore, the FAA has determined that controlling is a skill that can be taught.

Therefore, they only want to know if you have the proper skillset to be a successful controller, and couldn't care less that you aced biology or that you just couldn't wrap your mind around Jean-Jacques Rousseau's "state of nature" concept. . .

or if you convinced me to get fries with that.

The bottom line is that nothing about a college grad better qualifies him/her to be a controller than a manager at Mickey D's.

We all know controlling is important, but let's not act like it's the end-all, be-all profession of forever and ever.

/rant
 
Trojan said:
You're kind of a high-strung dude. And I don't appreciate your tone. So let me change mine. . .
Click to expand...

Zoesmom1020 said:
Here's my two cents...

queeno may be blunt, but he's not wrong.

according to an ATC trainer that I talked to...CTI guys fail out more often than OTS guys because
Click to expand...

:clap: Kudos to you both. I get so much hate from people because I applied for this job with no experience. Not from anyone in the ATC community (because I dont personally know anyone :bandit:), but people that I know. How I got chosen to get this far? Maybe because I visited the facility? Maybe because I did well on the AT-Sat, maybe maybe maybe!!! In the end who the hell knows?!? When it comes to actually training and doing thier job, perhaps people should just leave people to make their own mistakes and find their own way instead of assuming that because they have no degree that they will, in-turn, have no clue (or lack the skills to develop a clue). I am sure if the FAA (if am able to continue) will boot my ass with the quickest, quickness if I don't pan out. :)
 
Degree matters not, the real question is can you keep the planes from getting too close. That's about it my friends. Most of the veteran controllers in my facility don't have degrees and they applied OTS back in the day.... so take that for what it's worth.
 
This is out of control. The way I see it as a controller is per airplane I have probably 10% the responsibility / workload of the pilot per airplane. If I have 5 airplanes I'm running at 50% of the work load of each pilot I'm working. If I have 20 I'm double the workload. One minute I'd laugh if you said I was important as a doctor, there is no chance in Hades anything goes wrong, another minute and I'm knee deep in apreqs 4 transmitions behind as severe precip makes my day and all 3,000 people in my sectors day a living hell of turbulance and icing.

To go along with that, mode S / TCAS is a fantastic backup. I'm only human afterall. At the same time I've seen some questionable RAs. I've seen a DC-9 RA off their own transponder with nobody within 30 miles of them. A perfect technology it isnt.

The one thing I'd be one sided about is the idea that 3 years of Burger King experience is equal to the same amount of air traffic control experience. If you truely believe that I'd suggest finding a pre med student to do your next triple bypass at a discount. Or to put it in pilot terms, I totally know a guy who has been flying Citations on MS Flight Sim for 3 years. He'll left seat for free! He even has rudder pedals and everything!
 
Zoesmom1020 said:
Here's my two cents...

queeno may be blunt, but he's not wrong.

according to an ATC trainer that I talked to...CTI guys fail out more often than OTS guys because A. they come in thinking they are the bomb-diggity then B. tick off their trainers who no longer put the effort into them and C. OTS guys try harder cause they know they don't know anything about this field (at least this was the case at his facility).

just because you dont have a degree doesnt mean you are a dunce and shouldn't be given a shot at this job. and besides that, degree or no degree, you have a better chance of getting a job at McDonalds than a job with your degree right now. I have a degree and I am feeling it personally.

just remember, most of the guys you are replacing are OTS from back in the day. don't say anything that is going to get you flagged as a DB, you never know who is patrolling these forum pages...
Click to expand...

very well said ,thank you.

OG/retired

P.S. at times i may be too blunt but at least people know where i stand, unlike the idiots running the FFA nut house.
 
ineedatc said:
:clap: Kudos to you both. I get so much hate from people because I applied for this job with no experience. Not from anyone in the ATC community (because I dont personally know anyone :bandit:), but people that I know. How I got chosen to get this far? Maybe because I visited the facility? Maybe because I did well on the AT-Sat, maybe maybe maybe!!! In the end who the hell knows?!? When it comes to actually training and doing thier job, perhaps people should just leave people to make their own mistakes and find their own way instead of assuming that because they have no degree that they will, in-turn, have no clue (or lack the skills to develop a clue). I am sure if the FAA (if am able to continue) will boot my ass with the quickest, quickness if I don't pan out. :)
Click to expand...

once you get in its all attitude and ability, all that other stuff is BS.
 
Zoesmom1020 said:
degree or no degree, you have a better chance of getting a job at McDonalds than a job with your degree right now. I have a degree and I am feeling it personally.
Click to expand...
:yeahthat:

I couldn't agree more. That 7.75/hr job is really tempting considering you can't find a job within 200 miles of here.

Grad school here I come!
 
ATCtower said:
Yep, and if you should F up, you will be out on your ass with nothing to fall back on. Simply because ATC doesn't currently require a degree doesn't mean its not a good thing to have. But then again, if you were smart enough to know that, we probably wouldn't be having this little debate.



I was one who started before the OTS hiring began, and feel I gained valuable insight with the program, but would have also applied OTS if CTI weren't almost guaranteed selection.


Now there is a well rounded, non-biased post.:rolleyes: I do not resent OTS whatsoever for the luck and options available. I do think its rather dumb the FAA will allow someone with progressive McWork experience, and require no degree for a job/field where your responsibility is unmatched by ANY profession in the world. Kinda makes me feel a little less safe flying actually, but in NO way do I resent someone for taking the initiative and applying.



Careful with that one buddy. I have been saying the same thing for months and people enjoy flaming us believing it is their "Right" to work in the field and shouldn't have to do anything to get it.
Click to expand...

I did not say I was uneducated. Rule 1 in air traffic control...Never Assume. I happen to have a college degree and a career to fall back on.

Let me ask you something. Does the guy that goes to cti have anything to fall back on when he washes out?


This was a debate over a year and a half ago.... the controller in the post below made a good point.

http://forums.jetcareers.com/air-traffic-control/71077-just-controllers-opinion.html#post938668
 
Wyopoke79 said:
http://forums.jetcareers.com/air-traffic-control/71077-just-controllers-opinion.html#post938668
Click to expand...

That post is simply stellar. Thanks for pasting it here. :) I can understand ATCTower and other CTI applicants frustrations to an EXTENT, however college -- if you are not a doctor -- is functionally worthless, in my never to be humbled opinion. Jobs 20 years ago that people stepped into with a simple a HS diploma (and did well) are requiring degrees now. For ATC, I really dont see how the degree is beneficial. For me, I am such a hands on person, so the thought of relying on working out of book and then proclaiming mastery, boggles my wittle (little) brain. I know it sucks to know you wasted your money on a degree now that they are hiring OTS. However, that is the nature of the beast.

BTW, I do have a worthless degree and am a few worthless semester shy of having an even more worthless MBA. :D (I am not saying worthless to be facetious...i really think my degree is worthless :D). :beer:
 
ineedatc said:
BTW, I do have a worthless degree and am a few worthless semester shy of having an even more worthless MBA. :D (I am not saying worthless to be factitious...i really think my degree is worthless :D). :beer:
Click to expand...

cool! Me too! What's yours in? I'm criminal justice & forensic science. Couldn't find a job if I tried (and I have).
 
Zoesmom1020 said:
cool! Me too! What's yours in? I'm criminal justice & forensic science. Couldn't find a job if I tried (and I have).
Click to expand...

My BA is in English. LOL! Which is functionally worthless if you don't actually go to law school (hell to the no!). I think we are on the same plane of absolutely worthless expensive pieces paper. :) I don't know why people aren't more hip to the scam that is college. Why is it that I have a degree in English and I am almost complete with an MBA in business? Those two things are NOT interconnected at all yet I was able to persue an MBA after taking just 3 prerequisite courses!!

Also I meant "facetious" NOT factitious. Boy, I AM tired. :eek:
 
Zoesmom1020 said:
cool! Me too! What's yours in? I'm criminal justice & forensic science. Couldn't find a job if I tried (and I have).
Click to expand...

Wow, and here I thought we were mostly IT folks! :)

I've got a 4-year degree in Information Systems, and I met a few people at the PEPC that all seemed to work in the technology field, so I figured we fit some kind of profile the FAA had for ATC. Nice to see the diversity in field of study!
 
jermscentral said:
Wow, and here I thought we were mostly IT folks! :)

I've got a 4-year degree in Information Systems, and I met a few people at the PEPC that all seemed to work in the technology field, so I figured we fit some kind of profile the FAA had for ATC. Nice to see the diversity in field of study!
Click to expand...
I'm a history major. :eek:
 
BA in Communications here. Poli Sci minor that was only a minor because I would have had to take an additional 30 trivial credits to get a BA and BS.

My fall-back plan is law school, because in this economy, that BA is basically worthless. In fact, I think it hurts me, when the only hiring going on around here is in retail and they look at my resume and think this guy is gonna quit as soon as he can find something better anyway so they don't hire me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top