"Don't Sacrifice Safety for a Cheap Ticket" - AZ Republic

derg

derg

Apparently a "terse" writer
Staff member
Thoughts?


This was a "letter to the editor" Original Context

Cheap airfares raise safety issues
Mar. 8, 2007 12:00 AM

Don't sacrifice safety for a cheap ticket.

As more airlines pop up offering cheap flights, demand for pilots is increasing. While some regional airlines have adjusted their pay and working conditions to attract quality candidates, others have simply lowered their standards. Those airlines become training grounds for new commercial pilots willing to work for literally no pay so they can pick up flight time, by which they can meet the minimum requirements at better regional airlines.

So the next time you are searching for that cheap ticket, ask the company how much experience your flight crew has. Show them you will not be satisfied with the Federal Aviation Administration's bare minimum. Do not take it for granted that your pilots will be the highly trained and experienced crew you expect. - Sam Waters, Gilbert
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Too many people want to get somewhere for the least amount of money. You could tell them the crew or FO only has xxx hours and they won't care/ They will only care once planes start dropping out of the sky. Even then I wonder how much will happen. Comair is still flying after their recent fatal flight. The cheap fare seekers probably figured it was just THAT one crew. They made the mistake. It's all about the benjamin's for the average consumer.
 
JEP said:
It's all about the benjamin's for the average consumer.
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Unfortunately, I think that it's worse than that. The average customer (my own family, friends, and loved-ones included) are too stupid to even understand the whole thing. "Comair? What's Comair?".
 
mtsu_av8er said:
Unfortunately, I think that it's worse than that. The average customer (my own family, friends, and loved-ones included) are too stupid to even understand the whole thing. "Comair? What's Comair?".
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Too stupid or apathetic/uninformed?

As a regular joe pax, I don't care who operates my flight. I'm not some a.netter who keeps meticulous notes about which airline done me wrong in the past, because I know eventually they'll all screw up. C'est la vie. Much like everything, it's a gamble.
 
So does that mean pilots need to post their flight experiences, credentials / Licenses outside their cockpit doors? :p Maybe a tip jar with "my kids need some shoes on it" ;)
 
mtsu_av8er said:
Unfortunately, I think that it's worse than that. The average customer (my own family, friends, and loved-ones included) are too stupid to even understand the whole thing. "Comair? What's Comair?".
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yep, i can hear the conversation now.........

"Yeah, Yeah, wudever. But what's it gonna cost me to get to .......?":insane:
 
JEP said:
yep, i can hear the conversation now.........

"Yeah, Yeah, wudever. But what's it gonna cost me to get to .......?":insane:
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Theres always going to be the "I'm willing to drive 1 hr to save 10 dollars on my plane ticket" crowd...talking to them is like reasoning with a 5 year old who dosent want to take a shower!:whatever:
 
Hootie9750 said:
Dateline NBC
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I think they need to get the producers from that "to catch a predator" pedophile-busting show to go and corner some spiky-haired FO with sunglasses on his head as he's walking down the jetway.

They could jump out at him, shine lights in his face and be like, "were your intentions here really to fly that RJ with only 350hrs?"
 
There are a few problems I see with the exposure to the public about such an issue.

The last thing the airline industry needs is negative press and decrease pax travel which will ultimately lead to deeper pay cuts and concessions.

Until there are airplanes falling out of the sky, which in case you haven't noticed isnt happening, the public wont care.

And lastly, the airlines will say this is how pilots abroad are trained (ab initio) and Euro airlines share similar safety records to ours.
 
zmiller4 said:
I think they need to get the producers from that "to catch a predator" pedophile-busting show to go and corner some spiky-haired FO with sunglasses on his head as he's walking down the jetway.

They could jump out at him, shine lights in his face and be like, "were your intentions here really to fly that RJ with only 350hrs?"
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:nana2:
 
Unfortunately (fortunately?) safety isn't really the issue, right now. Aircraft aren't falling from the sky. The ComAir crash had two relatively high time pilots on board (the FO had over 2,000 hours I believe). While theoretically safety is - or could be - an issue calling it out on every issue is akin to crying wolf. After awhile people just stop listening.
 
pilot602 said:
Unfortunately (fortunately?) safety isn't really the issue, right now. Aircraft aren't falling from the sky. The ComAir crash had two relatively high time pilots on board (the FO had over 2,000 hours I believe). While theoretically safety is - or could be - an issue calling it out on every issue is akin to crying wolf. After awhile people just stop listening.
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I wouldn't say the captain was high time. Plus he only did 2 or 3 years as an airline f/o before becoming a captain.

The flying the commuters are capturing used to be done with 15 year/ 15,000 hour captains and 10 year, 10,000 hour f/o's. I'm not saying that the high time/experience values will prevent everything...but there is definitely a seasoning element of the profession that is being bypassed.
 
Things have definately changed and probably for the good. Everyone keeps talking about how the regionals will change their mins. They may if the industry slows down but I really dont see it happening.

Avionics and procedures have improved a huge amount since the days of the 10,000/hr commuter captain. Not saying it takes less skill to fly a RJ today but technology has made it safer and more efficient.
 
JEP said:
Comair is still flying after their recent fatal flight. The cheap fare seekers probably figured it was just THAT one crew. They made the mistake. It's all about the benjamin's for the average consumer.
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What makes you think Comair's accident was a question of experience?

If Mesa was losing a plane every month with a lower experienced crew upfront it wouldn't be a public outrage, the FAA would shut 'em down in no time at all.
 
B767Driver said:
I wouldn't say the captain was high time. Plus he only did 2 or 3 years as an airline f/o before becoming a captain.

The flying the commuters are capturing used to be done with 15 year/ 15,000 hour captains and 10 year, 10,000 hour f/o's. I'm not saying that the high time/experience values will prevent everything...but there is definitely a seasoning element of the profession that is being bypassed.
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I meant "high time" in relation to current hiring minimums and trend to keep lowering the bar.

And I agree that this flying used to be mainline's domain (scope?) but the fact of the matter is aircraft just aren't falling out of the sky due to low time pilots. A the bar gets lower we'll see what happens.

My point, however, is still the same.

Neither the FAA nor the general public will care until we have at least one disasterous crash that can be unequivocally blamed solely on low time.
 
I'm not sure what to believe in this whole debate. I understand the points being made about cheap tickets, but does cheap always correlate with poor safety? Is there a cause and effect relationship established?

This summer I'm thinking about flying Allegiant GRB-LAS for about $180 round trip. The other option is NWA for about $250. Is Allegiant cheap because the pilots are poorly paid thereby impinging on the safety of the flight? Or is it the case of an effiecient business reflecting on the price of the ticket?

I feel these are rhetorical questions, so that may be why I never know what to believe in this.
 
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