proxima3003
Well-Known Member
Anybody on here did their initial as a CFII? Any hints or good material that you used to prepare? Thanks
Doing a CFII as initial
- Thread starter proxima3003
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KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
I did it. The only difference is you will cover instrument flying material, rather than the Private and Commercial stuff. It's probably no easier or harder than doing the CFI-ASE than the initial.
Mike H
Well-Known Member
...except that it's pretty well doumented that you can't teach in an airplane until you get your CFI-A.
For some reason, certain people seem to think that doing Double-I as their initial CFI is "easier" and/or a way of "getting over" on somebody- usually, the FAA. And it does, in the eyes of many- myself included- betray something of a character flaw in those who seem to be OK with thinking they can game the system. Even if that's not your motivation, it sure makes it appear that way to other people.
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
So? Perhaps there is another reason to do so? I was more comfortable with the instrument material than I was with private and commercial, and thus decided that I would feel better doing the CFI-IA first, then adding the CFI-ASE on. Doesn't make it wrong and to suggest that one is gaming the system is wrong and disrespectful, IMO.
Most places do it because they are afraid their PA28R or C172RG isn't going to pass a through, sometime totally out of line, FSDO airworthiness inspection.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
I did not do the CFI-A as my first CFI ride, I don't think it makes much difference. Do what you feel most prepared for first.
will_fly_for_bandwith
Well-Known Member
I did my II as my initial. As for it being 'easier' then doing your CFI-A first... I think it is physiological, I do think that I had more confidence going into my CFI-A as an add-on therefore it appeared easier.
During both rides I was held to the standards in the PTS so I don’t know how I gamed the system (not directed at you Mike...just saying).
For the material use the FAA documents (Instrument Procedures and ins. flying handbook)... don’t forget the AIM, a bunch of great info there. Use the CFII PTS as your road map, create lesson plans for each task/element (please do not buy them on line, you are really not doing yourself any favors) and practice teaching. Both the II and CFI-A are teaching tests, so practice, practice, practice.
And yes, the II is useless without the CFI-A, about the only thing you can do is ground and simulator training.
good luck !
During both rides I was held to the standards in the PTS so I don’t know how I gamed the system (not directed at you Mike...just saying).
For the material use the FAA documents (Instrument Procedures and ins. flying handbook)... don’t forget the AIM, a bunch of great info there. Use the CFII PTS as your road map, create lesson plans for each task/element (please do not buy them on line, you are really not doing yourself any favors) and practice teaching. Both the II and CFI-A are teaching tests, so practice, practice, practice.
And yes, the II is useless without the CFI-A, about the only thing you can do is ground and simulator training.
good luck !
Mike H
Well-Known Member
If you'll re-read what I said,.. "Even if that's not your motivation, it sure makes it appear that way..." It's undeniable that some people make it perfecty clear when they ask about doing the Double-I as their initial CFI that trying to game the system is, in fact, their primary motivation. Not saying it had anything to do with your motivtion, but you're lumping yourself in with those for whom it did.
Think about the implications of that statement. These people are apparently not bothered that they're renting out un-airworthy airplanes; their worry is that the FSDO might make them stop!
Mike H
Well-Known Member
You did you CFI-G first? Nobody can accuse you of trying to do the "easy one" as your initial CFI
proxima3003
Well-Known Member
According to 61.193 and 61.195 if I do the CFII as my initial checkride (airplane), I can teach instrument flight and endorse IPCs, prereqs, instrument written and practical endorsements. I do have the instrument, category and class as needed in 61.195(b)(1). Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
Yes because a seatbelt without a tag on it is a big deal. I know a flight school who had their C172RG tagged by the FSDO airworthiness guys tag a plane for that reason
Mike H
Well-Known Member
pretty well established that unless you have your CFI-A, you can't teach anything in airplanes, period. You can teach in certain simultators, and you can teach ground school, but you cannot give flight instruction, so that rules out endorsing anyone for a checkride or IPC. You're also practically unmarketable, job wise. Why would anybody hire a Double-I Only when CFI-A's who also are CFI-I's are a dime a dozen?
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
You were sort of correct at one time. But not any more.
According to 61.195, as amended in 2009
==============================
(b) Aircraft Ratings. A flight instructor may not conduct flight training in any aircraft for which the flight instructor does not hold:
(1) A pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate with the applicable category and class rating;
==============================
As in, a pilot certificate with applicable category and class ratings and an instructor certificate with applicable category and class ratings.
There was, for a long time, quite a bit of confusion about where a CFII with no aircraft CFI rating fit in. Even some FAA documents said what you believe. The very slight change in the wording of the reg in 2009 was intended to point out that the FAA finally took a consistent position - that a CFI must have an aircraft rating to teach anything in an aircraft. Here's the Chief Counsel interpretation that discusses the issue http://tinyurl.com/4q2gpbx
Ajax
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I did my CFII as the initial. Didn't require a spin endorsement or a complex airplane. Lightens up the endorsements to be covered during the ground and it's essentially an instrument ride from the right seat while teaching it.
I'm at work now, maybe I can come by and give some pointers later. If you have any specific questions let me know
I'm at work now, maybe I can come by and give some pointers later. If you have any specific questions let me know
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
I'm not convinced that it doesn't require the spin endorsement, as both my CFI who trained me for the CFI-IA initial required it, as did the FSDO appointed DPE. What regulation are you saying doesn't require it?
Ajax
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But, since you are getting your CFII, not CFI or MEI, it has no airplane rating on it. You would be a flight instructor instrument airplane, without a single-engine or multi-engine land rating attached so a spin endorsement would not be required.
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
Personally, I think it's a grey area, that eventually someone will write a question to the chief's counsel to get an answer one way or the other. Heck, if I've got some free time sometime, I might even do it.
will_fly_for_bandwith
Well-Known Member
Hope this helps:
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...terpretations/data/interps/2010/Grayson-2.pdf
Note FAR 61.195 (especially the bold face)
(c) Instrument Rating. A flight instructor who provides instrument training for the issuance of an instrument rating, a type rating not limited to VFR, or the instrument training required for commercial pilot and airline transport pilot certificates must hold an instrument rating on his or her pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft used for the training provided.
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...terpretations/data/interps/2010/Grayson-2.pdf
Note FAR 61.195 (especially the bold face)
(c) Instrument Rating. A flight instructor who provides instrument training for the issuance of an instrument rating, a type rating not limited to VFR, or the instrument training required for commercial pilot and airline transport pilot certificates must hold an instrument rating on his or her pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft used for the training provided.
What a load of crap. Your arrogance is showing very well.
Back up your fact of matter speech with viable references, otherwise your credibility is in question.