Does this qualify me for a gold seal CFI?

Ajax

Ajax

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • I have 12 total signoffs in a 24 month period.
    • 8 of them passed on their first time
    • 2 failed on their initial go
    • Those 2 then passed on their retest
So, that gives me the 80% pass rate on the initial attempt. However, my first checkride signoff was in Feb 2012 and in April of 2012 I added my MEI, which served as a renewal.

My question is does the MEI add on affect my eligibility for a gold seal + renewal?

I've tried calling the FSDO, but haven't had my call answered or returned yet.
 
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Your flight instructor renewal (accomplished by attaining an additional flight instructor rating) does not affect your gold seal eligibility.
 
Thanks, that was what I was thinking. I just got a call from the FSDO, he says he doesn't think he can do it because I'm not within 90 days of my CFI expiring.
 
Ajax said:
  • I have 12 total signoffs in a 24 month period.
    • 8 of them passed on their first time
    • 2 failed on their initial go
    • Those 2 then passed on their retest
So, that gives me the 80% pass rate on the initial attempt. However, my first checkride signoff was in Feb 2012 and in April of 2012 I added my MEI, which served as a renewal.

My question is does the MEI add on affect my eligibility for a gold seal + renewal?

I've tried calling the FSDO, but haven't had my call answered or returned yet.
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The answer is no, the MEI doesn't affect Gold Seal status. But now that you've gone and asked the FSDO, it just might. Don't ever ask the FSDO any question the answer to which you are not already certain.
 
Yeah, as to the original FSDO response. You can renew your CFI every month if you wanted to. The whole "within 90 days" (which is actually the preceding 3 calendar months) is only for retaining your original renewal month. BTW, congrats on the gold seal!
 
Ajax said:
Thanks, that was what I was thinking. I just got a call from the FSDO, he says he doesn't think he can do it because I'm not within 90 days of my CFI expiring.
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He's wrong. You can renew your CFI every month if you choose to do so.

Unfortunately, the problem you are now faced with is how to convince someone that they are wrong without ruffling feathers. That is a difficult a challenge in human interpersonal relations. I can only suggest that it be done with as big a smile as possible while trying to lead the conversation rather than challenge the inspector.

It will help to go in armed with the facts. The FAA inspectors are governed by an order from the Administrator that instructs them how to do their job. Note that it is an order and not a suggestion. The specific order that covers what you want to do is FAA Order 8900.1. Here is the applicable section from that order:

5-504 RENEWAL OF FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR CERTIFICATE. Section 61.197(a) states that a holder of a current flight instructor may renew that certificate and rating by passing a practical test for one of the ratings listed on the applicant's current flight instructor certificate. Section 61.199(a) states that the holder of an expired flight instructor certificate may reinstate that certificate by passing a practical test for one of the ratings listed on the applicant's expired flight instructor certificate.
A. Section 61.197(a). A person who holds a flight instructor certificate that has not expired may renew that certificate for an additional 24 calendar-months if the holder:
1) Passes a practical test for renewal of the flight instructor certificate or an additional flight instructor rating; or
2) Presents at least one of the following to an ASI:
a) A record of training students that shows, during the preceding 24 calendar-months in which the flight instructor has:
• Endorsed at least five students for a practical test for a certificate or rating, and
• Passed at least 80 percent of those students on the first attempt of the test.
b) A record that shows that within the preceding 24 calendar-months, the flight instructor has served in one of the following positions in which the ASI is acquainted with the duties and responsibilities, and has knowledge of its current pilot training, certification, and standards, of:
• A company check pilot,
• A chief flight instructor,
• A company check airman,
• A flight instructor in a part 121 or 135 operation, or
• A position involving the regular evaluation of pilots.
c) A graduation certificate showing the person has successfully completed an approved flight instructor refresher course/clinic, consisting of ground training or flight training, or both, within the 3 calendar-months preceding the expiration month of his/her flight instructor certificate.
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You also want to add Gold Seal to your CFI. That is covered in this part of the same order:

5-538 GOLD SEAL FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR CERTIFICATES. A qualified flight instructor may request the issuance of a gold seal flight instructor certificate when renewing his or her flight instructor certificate or at any time the flight instructor makes application upon meeting the requirements.
A. Gold Seal Requirements. A gold seal certificate may be issued to a flight instructor who holds a ground instructor certificate with a basic ground instructor rating, and has met one of the following criteria within the past 24 calendar-months:
• Trained and recommended at least 10 applicants for an original certificate with at least 80 percent of those applicants passing the practical test on their first attempt;
• Administered at least 20 certification practical tests as an examiner or administered 20 certification graduation tests as a chief flight instructor for an approved pilot school course; or
• Fulfilled a combination of the two criteria listed above-two certification practical tests/certification graduation tests equate to one trained and recommended applicant.
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Maybe the best thing to do is to start by saying you have read the order and you see where you are eligible, but you don't see any requirement that it has to be within 90 days of when your CFI expires. Done with a smile and a non-confrontational tone, that should work. If it doesn't work, there are ways to push it further an make it work. Hopefully you won't need to do that, but if you do, contact me and I'll give you some options.

Here is a location where you can find the entire FAA Order 9800.1:

http://fsims.faa.gov/PICResults.aspx?mode=EBookContents
 
Contrary to what some ASI's think, inspectors have jobs because Pilots/mechanics have jobs. And some don't have enough sense to get out of the rain. AND some don't even look at guidance and just give you an answer that means less work for them. On the other hand, there are some very good inspectors who realize we are still public servants.
 
I called him and spoke to him about how I read the text, he agreed and we set up an appointment. He was a nice guy.
 
Ajax said:
I called him and spoke to him about how I read the text, he agreed and we set up an appointment. He was a nice guy.
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Sounds like a perfect solution. You did a good job of bringing a happy ended to what could have been a bad situation. Good for you.
 
mikecweb said:
What does a gold seal CFI do for you?
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It documents that at one point in your life you were a real flight instructor and that you were not only active but also successful in your efforts. A lot of people hold flight instructor certificates. Not that many of them have gold seals.
 
mikecweb said:
What does a gold seal CFI do for you?
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Nothing that you can't demonstrate on a resume.

Good on anyone who gets it. My big gripe with the gold seal program is 1.) you must have a ground instructor rating (wasting time and money on a pointless certificate) and 2.) it does not expire (would mean more to me if someone had to keep performing at a certain level to retain the title).
 
Houston said:
It documents that at one point in your life you were a real flight instructor and that you were not only active but also successful in your efforts. A lot of people hold flight instructor certificates. Not that many of them have gold seals.
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Interesting.
 
subpilot said:
My big gripe with the gold seal program is 1.) you must have a ground instructor rating (wasting time and money on a pointless certificate) and 2.) it does not expire (would mean more to me if someone had to keep performing at a certain level to retain the title).
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That is an unfortunate consequence of the changing times. Up until around 1980, the paper tests were free. You could take one at any FSDO (GADO back then) or any FSS (with prior arrangement). The requirements for a Gold Seal were written before that change. The only thing that has gotten better about the system is that you get your test results right away. Back in the days when it was done on paper, it seems like there was a two month wait to get the results.
 
When I spoke to him on the phone I explained that I did not see anything limiting a renewal to being within 3 months, only that to renew you had to have completed the requirements within the preceding 3 months. I said it was just like doing a flight review before you need one. All said and done, it was very easy and the ASI was very friendly.
 
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Ajax said:
  • I have 12 total signoffs in a 24 month period.
    • 8 of them passed on their first time
    • 2 failed on their initial go
    • Those 2 then passed on their retest
So, that gives me the 80% pass rate on the initial attempt. However, my first checkride signoff was in Feb 2012 and in April of 2012 I added my MEI, which served as a renewal.

My question is does the MEI add on affect my eligibility for a gold seal + renewal?

I've tried calling the FSDO, but haven't had my call answered or returned yet.
Click to expand...

A gold seal is a sobriquet of the FAA’s alphabet issued by FSDO martinets to CFIs in bassinets.
Displays much a like a coronet, while serving as a corselette.
See the CFI marionette bedecked in FAA tricolette.
CFI now teachers’ pet, but deserving of the oubliette.
Please forgive the quodlibet.
 
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