Agree. Useful if kept in the right perspective, but definitely not needed or a requirement, and can indeed be a detriment if not used properly or if one has the wrong mindset with it.
Does Civil "Professional Pilot" training significantly help with AF UPT?
- Thread starter akmountaineer
- Start date
Agree. Useful if kept in the right perspective, but definitely not needed or a requirement, and can indeed be a detriment if not used properly or if one has the wrong mindset with it.
Sheesh.
What's with all the "we agree" "Kumbaya" "buddy-buddy" stuff going on in here? I thought this was the Military forum where "men are men" and "let the chips fall where they may". Guess I oughta set up a "Military Retrosexual School" and whip you guys back into shape.
Oh, wait a minute. You're all AF guys, aren't you? Never mind then - waste of my time....
<G, D, & R*>
*G, D, & R = grin, duck and run
What's with all the "we agree" "Kumbaya" "buddy-buddy" stuff going on in here? I thought this was the Military forum where "men are men" and "let the chips fall where they may". Guess I oughta set up a "Military Retrosexual School" and whip you guys back into shape.
Oh, wait a minute. You're all AF guys, aren't you? Never mind then - waste of my time....
<G, D, & R*>
*G, D, & R = grin, duck and run
MDPilot
Well-Known Member
No prob fish, publicly as well as PM.
This whole topic reminds me of another stud who, upon hooking his second pre-solo ride in the T-38, jumped up during the debrief with his IP, pulled out his wallet, and shouted "I don't care what you say, this says I'm a pilot!!" throwing his PPL cert on the table. The IP looked up at the standing stud, picked up the cert, and calmly frisbeed it across the room saying "That don't mean • in here!". By the end of the week, said student was washed out and outprocessing from the AF.
The lesson? As MikeD, Tony C and fish have said in their own ways, attitude can be as important as flying ability at UPT.
This whole topic reminds me of another stud who, upon hooking his second pre-solo ride in the T-38, jumped up during the debrief with his IP, pulled out his wallet, and shouted "I don't care what you say, this says I'm a pilot!!" throwing his PPL cert on the table. The IP looked up at the standing stud, picked up the cert, and calmly frisbeed it across the room saying "That don't mean • in here!". By the end of the week, said student was washed out and outprocessing from the AF.
The lesson? As MikeD, Tony C and fish have said in their own ways, attitude can be as important as flying ability at UPT.
akmountaineer
Well-Known Member
I'd like to extend thanks to everyone for their input on this issue, particularly the actual military guys (esp. Fish, Rocket, MD). I have reconsidered my training plan and will hold off on any large scale endeavors for now. My main concern is that with such a huge investment in time and resources to get a Reserve UPT slot, washing out would be an extremely disappointing blow. I don't mind hard work and hours of studying, and I plan to dedicate myself 100 percent to doing what it takes to get through the program. You can call it paranoia, or hearing too many washout stories, but I just feel like even doing the best I can might not be enough. I got relatively good grades in college and grad school (3.4,3.6), but it was only by studying like crazy and not doing much else. In a rigidly time structured environment like UPT, my biggest fear is not having enough time to study and digest the information that's presented when it comes time to "drink from the fire hose".
Thanks again for all the words of wisdom.
-ak
Thanks again for all the words of wisdom.
-ak
While I wasn't a pilot in the AF, I did work as an engineer with a bunch of guys who washed out of UPT.
Of the dozen or so that I met, none of them washed out because they couldn't handle the flying; most said it was either an underestimation of the academics or stress or a combination of both.
One guy said he couldn't study because there were too many distractions; after being on his own for the first time since graduating college, he partied hard on weekends and as a result, couldn't make it academically. (He contended that if he were sent for UPT to Vance instead of Williams that he would have graduated.)
Another guy thought UPT (and flying in general) would have consisted of just jumping in the cockpit and flying and not memorization of procedures, etc. And, he said he discovered, it wasn't like in college where you could cram in a few minutes and ace the test.
Finally, the others had a lot of non-school stress in their lives (family issues) which they said distracted them from studying.
Sounds like you know what you are in for, so you shouldn't be surprised there.
Good luck!
Of the dozen or so that I met, none of them washed out because they couldn't handle the flying; most said it was either an underestimation of the academics or stress or a combination of both.
One guy said he couldn't study because there were too many distractions; after being on his own for the first time since graduating college, he partied hard on weekends and as a result, couldn't make it academically. (He contended that if he were sent for UPT to Vance instead of Williams that he would have graduated.)
Another guy thought UPT (and flying in general) would have consisted of just jumping in the cockpit and flying and not memorization of procedures, etc. And, he said he discovered, it wasn't like in college where you could cram in a few minutes and ace the test.
Finally, the others had a lot of non-school stress in their lives (family issues) which they said distracted them from studying.
Sounds like you know what you are in for, so you shouldn't be surprised there.
Good luck!
aloft
New Member
The control/performance method strikes again!
MDPilot
Well-Known Member
My quick tips for success at UPT:
1) Be a team player. You are not graduating by yourself, you are graduating a UPT class. Help others out in study sessions, don't be afraid of asking for help yourself. The big "competition" that students feel is largely self generated, the IPs know who is doing good and who isn't.
2) Have a good attitude. Recognize that the AF wants you to learn to fly THEIR way. If they wanted pilots trained like the academies or even FBOs train them, they would contract out this whole process. Guess what, they don't. Be a sponge, forget what you think you already know. In fact if you have any significant prior flight experience, downplay it as much as possible. Better to have an IP expect little out of you and you demonstrate a lot vs. him expecting a lot out of you and you showing him little.
3) Party hard, but be smart about it. Have fun on Fri or Sat nite with your class, but start digging back in on Sunday to be ready for Monday.
4) Be prepared for every flight/sim you are eligible for. There may be several things the scheduler can throw you up on short notice, be prepared. IPs will work a long way with a weak stud who is prepared and is giving 110%. They are not so keen on studs who think they don't need to prepare and come into a ride cold with the attitude, "Demo that for me before I try one so I can see what the entry speed is, I didn't really study up on this."
5) Finally, realize that networking works in the AF too. Don't go out of your way to piss off fellow students or IPs, you may be working for them someday, or need a favor or contact somewhere down the road.
1) Be a team player. You are not graduating by yourself, you are graduating a UPT class. Help others out in study sessions, don't be afraid of asking for help yourself. The big "competition" that students feel is largely self generated, the IPs know who is doing good and who isn't.
2) Have a good attitude. Recognize that the AF wants you to learn to fly THEIR way. If they wanted pilots trained like the academies or even FBOs train them, they would contract out this whole process. Guess what, they don't. Be a sponge, forget what you think you already know. In fact if you have any significant prior flight experience, downplay it as much as possible. Better to have an IP expect little out of you and you demonstrate a lot vs. him expecting a lot out of you and you showing him little.
3) Party hard, but be smart about it. Have fun on Fri or Sat nite with your class, but start digging back in on Sunday to be ready for Monday.
4) Be prepared for every flight/sim you are eligible for. There may be several things the scheduler can throw you up on short notice, be prepared. IPs will work a long way with a weak stud who is prepared and is giving 110%. They are not so keen on studs who think they don't need to prepare and come into a ride cold with the attitude, "Demo that for me before I try one so I can see what the entry speed is, I didn't really study up on this."
5) Finally, realize that networking works in the AF too. Don't go out of your way to piss off fellow students or IPs, you may be working for them someday, or need a favor or contact somewhere down the road.
Fly4Pay
New Member
Speaking as one at the "sunset" of his AF career, I'll give a hearty "amen" to all of MD's points above. Going into UPT, I only had my PPL (at a time when it wasn't required--they had a "flight indoctrination program" you went to instead), not a commercial+. The areas it DID seem to help were:
1) I was used to talking on the radio (like my IP said, "Mess up in the plane, you and I know. Mess up in the pattern, everyone within 5 miles knows. Mess up on the radio, and everyone with 100 miles knows!"). Surprisingly, flying while talking seemed to challenge a lot of folks.
2) I could think better in terms of keeping up with where planes were in the pattern. Having "grown up" at an uncontrolled field, I was used to keeping my eyes and ears open for other planes.
3) I was pretty sure I wasn't gonna toss my cookies every flight!
Good luck-- UPT will be one of the toughest things you'll ever do, and you'll spend the rest of your life looking back at how fun it was (and how little you realized it at the time!)