does anyone here recommended atp flight school
- Thread starter madlion
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FlyByWire22
Well-Known Member
Agreed. I'm no better than he, when stooping to his name calling level. Frustration + Sleep Deprivation = Bad Call 
I know better.
I know better.
Tram
Well-Known Member
DL31082
Well-Known Member
Alright. I'll try to help you out a little. I went through ATP back in 2008. I actually finished around the time all the hiring stopped. Here is what I think of the program and what it is like having this loan payment as a first year FO.
The program is actually a very good program. I know that it is very structured now, it wasn't back in 2008. The program really comes down to the quality of the instructor that your are assigned to. If you have a good instructor the program is great. If you get an instructor that only cares about building hours it isn't so great.
The killer is the amount of debt that you finish with. I was hired on Feb 28th, 2011 with Pinnacle Airlines. My W2 will show around 24,000 in income before taxes. My loan payment is 600 a month. I spent 7200 just servicing my student loan this year. If that doesn't put it in perspective I'm not sure what will.
The only reason I have been able to make it work is because I am married to a great women that works very hard. If you have any questions PM me. I'll answer whatever I can. My biggest advice would be if you can do this without the debt, do it!!
The program is actually a very good program. I know that it is very structured now, it wasn't back in 2008. The program really comes down to the quality of the instructor that your are assigned to. If you have a good instructor the program is great. If you get an instructor that only cares about building hours it isn't so great.
The killer is the amount of debt that you finish with. I was hired on Feb 28th, 2011 with Pinnacle Airlines. My W2 will show around 24,000 in income before taxes. My loan payment is 600 a month. I spent 7200 just servicing my student loan this year. If that doesn't put it in perspective I'm not sure what will.
The only reason I have been able to make it work is because I am married to a great women that works very hard. If you have any questions PM me. I'll answer whatever I can. My biggest advice would be if you can do this without the debt, do it!!
Tram
Well-Known Member
... and you failed to mention that Pinnacle is on the verge of bankruptcy and if you're lucky, you'll upgrade in ~5 years..
Matt13C
Well-Known Member
I go away for a few days and I miss all the fun.
The intent of sub forums is not so only those who have gone there can comment, but so common themes have a home. You dont need to have gone to ATP to have an opinion. I've personally gone through all the steps of attending ATP besides signing the line. I was approved for a loan all I had to do was accept the terms and pick a start date.
Do whatever you want that you think will make you happy. Remember though, the advice given here is from people who have been through it and still have a somewhat positive attitude. Go on to some other aviation sites and see what disgruntled pilots have to say.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
Wait I've seen this thread before...
Get a degree. Don't limit your career potential unless you have to.
Get a degree. Don't limit your career potential unless you have to.
Bumblebee
Commodore
I am not a normal example. I went to ATP, I had some great opportunities due to the wisdom on this website and networking with the PEOPLE behind the usernames..my wife is special too, she encouraged me to go wherever I needed in the world to advance my career. I also went to college at the same time.
Started in Oct 03 got a traffic watch gig and worked for ATP in 04, got a gig in 05 flying King Airs, SkyWest in July 06, Captain Jan of 08, Tankers summer of 09 and was able to pay the interest on my student loan before I graduated from college in 2010. When my loan became due in October 2010, I owed the principle of $70,000 with accrued interest of OVER $30,000 (for both college and flight school and I paid cash for my tuition for the last two years of college) but since I paid the interest before it amortized I am not paying interest on interest. Still, I pay over $700 a month to the student loan, and with my good fortune in my career I plan on paying that off in five years.
Most pilots, even those who started before me, don't make nearly the income I make from aviation (some who started after make more, but those are even fewer).
I beat the odds, but that won't be certain until I pay it off and still have gainful employment...I was older when I started so I needed to go quickly...had I been younger, I believe taking the long road, in college at campus (instead of online) and a longer more relaxed approach for flight training allowing time for hangar talk, for the payments to clear and the knowledge to settle in would have been a better and more enjoyable course of action.
Started in Oct 03 got a traffic watch gig and worked for ATP in 04, got a gig in 05 flying King Airs, SkyWest in July 06, Captain Jan of 08, Tankers summer of 09 and was able to pay the interest on my student loan before I graduated from college in 2010. When my loan became due in October 2010, I owed the principle of $70,000 with accrued interest of OVER $30,000 (for both college and flight school and I paid cash for my tuition for the last two years of college) but since I paid the interest before it amortized I am not paying interest on interest. Still, I pay over $700 a month to the student loan, and with my good fortune in my career I plan on paying that off in five years.
Most pilots, even those who started before me, don't make nearly the income I make from aviation (some who started after make more, but those are even fewer).
I beat the odds, but that won't be certain until I pay it off and still have gainful employment...I was older when I started so I needed to go quickly...had I been younger, I believe taking the long road, in college at campus (instead of online) and a longer more relaxed approach for flight training allowing time for hangar talk, for the payments to clear and the knowledge to settle in would have been a better and more enjoyable course of action.
DL31082
Well-Known Member
Yeah well I left that part out because it wasn't part of his question.
madlion
Member
you hurt my feelings by calling me a fool
Bumblebee
Commodore
that's exactly why we shouldn't make provocative statements...such as calling others a fool as in this post you submitted...
so that's a good lesson...
or asking how would you like one across the lips...
so that's a good lesson...
LoadMasterC141
Well-Known Member
I smell some serious under the bridge troll going on here.
Tram
Well-Known Member
Ah ok.
Hankpilot
Member
If you haven't made up your mind here is my 2 cents. I went through ATP in 2008 and Loved the experience! Sure it is expensive but as a older individual that wanted to change careers and get it done, there was no better option for me. In order to work throug the debt I remain a college student taking 6 credit hours a semester which allows me to deffer my loan and I am close to finishing my degree. For now I work at Flight Safety International and I have an interview in Feb. at Express Jet. Look down the road and try and figure out where you wan to be and how quick you wantto get there. If you have time and are not in a hurry to finish would go to Flight Safety Academy in Vero Beach, FL. After completion there you can become a flight instructor and build you time or go get typed in an airctft as an intern in one of ther facilities. ATP is great for what it does, it gets you done quickly with a good amount of multi time. Good luck in your quest I hope this helps.
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
Hank - if you don't mind sharing further - by deferring your loan as long as you have, how bad is the interest load on that note?
Matt13C
Well-Known Member
So when all is said and done you'll have spent $114,000 on flight training? Am I reading that correctly?
As you said, you beat the odds and others should not expect to be able to pay off $44,000 in a few short years on normal airline salaries. Because of that, what they end up spending will be well over the $114,000 you will pay.
For perspective, when I applied to ATP my quote, with basically perfect credit, was at 16% interest. I am not sure if they are offering lower now, but I doubt a 17-21 year old will get much lower than that. Anyway, 70k at 16% interest over 20 years is $974 per month. That amounts to $233,760 paid to learn to fly. At 10% interest that amount drops down to 675 per month or $162,000 to learn to fly. If that does not get through to you the level of commitment you are signing up for I don't know what will.
Hankpilot
Member
Actually not as bad as you would think. I got a student loan at 4.3% so anually I accrew approx $2,400 per year I choose to defer. I nenver said it was a great option, however, it has allowed me to finish college, get a job, and essentially put myself in a position to begin payments on my loan. I just received my letter to begin payments in june which will be $460 per month. There are still good rates out there but you have to find them and yes when the payments are done I will have spent doubble on what the school origionally cost but I wanted to be a pilot. 16% is increadibly high. ATP now qualifies for many different types of student loans now that their program meshes with an actual college. If you are military all flight training is now covered 100% as long as you attend a part 141 school as well. Don't be scared of the price tag be creative and find a way if it's your dream.
Matt13C
Well-Known Member
Do you mind me asking who your loan is through? This was before they signed on with Utah Valley, so it was variable rate loan through Sallie Mae. Is yours fixed rate? Did you need to enroll in a certain number of college courses to be eligible for the lower interest through the school, or do the flight lessons cover the necessary credit hours?
Hankpilot
Member
It is a fixed rate through what was Wachovia and when they sold to Wells Fargo I simply called them up and explained what I was trying to do which lowered my rate. I originally got the loan before they signed on in early '08. After ATP I went back to school in Jan '09. Thats when I negotiated my rate and payments. When I renegotiated I was a full time student (12 cridet hrs.) and as long as I remained part time (6 credit hrs.) I could defer my loan. The flight labs (flight instruction) at my school counted as credit hours. I came into college with all of my ratings and began flight istructing right away. The school took my ratings and instead of just crediting me for the classes they issued me a grade for the class, which I didnt have to enroll in but my transcripts showed enrollment for that semester. Again I told my college advisor what I was trying to do and he helped me with the leg work.
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