Dispatch Standardization

[Bobber]

Hello all,

I have had trainees come to me telling me "I did this because so and so trainer does it this way." I look at that dispatchers releases and question how he got signed off. Everything is legal but his reasoning behind his alternate selection and fuel planning are insane. Not to mention his remarks.

This isn't the first time. Even when I went through training, everyone does something different. There are 10 ways to skin a cat (they say in dispatch).

I just wonder what everyone's thoughts are on standardizing the realm that is dispatch. So when flight crews get our releases they look the same no matter who's desk their flight is on. We can start with standardized remarks and following the God Dam fuel policy but nobody enforces it so it seems futile. Some other methods that I love:

-If I add an alternate it automatically gets 20 mins hold

-If you are in class B airspace you get a 1000lb add minimum

-Taxi time at hubs? 40 mins out stations? 20 mins
(Forget the years of taxi data)

**My personal favorite: 10C or below? Anti ice on no matter what. Even if it's +6 vis and SKC

It's hard for trainees to get a hold of what is supposed to be standard when they have these terrible trainers. It's hard for them to stick up for themselves and tell their trainer "that's not policy, we're supposed to turn engine anti ice on when there is visible moisture AND at or below 10C"

Anyways. Feeling bad for the newbies today. If you are reading this and trying to find your way... I hope you find trainers that actually know what they are doing and follow company P&P. You will find your groove. Don't necessarily do something because a trainer told you to. I bet you know just as much or more than they do.

 

[Flagship_dxer]

Hello all,

I have had trainees come to me telling me "I did this because so and so trainer does it this way." I look at that dispatchers releases and question how he got signed off. Everything is legal but his reasoning behind his alternate selection and fuel planning are insane. Not to mention his remarks.

This isn't the first time. Even when I went through training, everyone does something different. There are 10 ways to skin a cat (they say in dispatch).

I just wonder what everyone's thoughts are on standardizing the realm that is dispatch. So when flight crews get our releases they look the same no matter who's desk their flight is on. We can start with standardized remarks and following the God Dam fuel policy but nobody enforces it so it seems futile. Some other methods that I love:

-If I add an alternate it automatically gets 20 mins hold

-If you are in class B airspace you get a 1000lb add minimum

-Taxi time at hubs? 40 mins out stations? 20 mins
(Forget the years of taxi data)

**My personal favorite: 10C or below? Anti ice on no matter what. Even if it's +6 vis and SKC

It's hard for trainees to get a hold of what is supposed to be standard when they have these terrible trainers. It's hard for them to stick up for themselves and tell their trainer "that's not policy, we're supposed to turn engine anti ice on when there is visible moisture AND at or below 10C"

Anyways. Feeling bad for the newbies today. If you are reading this and trying to find your way... I hope you find trainers that actually know what they are doing and follow company P&P. You will find your groove. Don't necessarily do something because a trainer told you to. I bet you know just as much or more than they do.

A fuel policy that makes sense goes a long way to gaining compliance amongst a dispatch group. Some airlines have fuel policies where flights landing in low visibility at a hub airport get planned with a lower arrival fuel than a flight going to a small VFR outstation. There might be a good reason for this but it is not a common sense policy and difficult for dispatchers to explain to pilots. Keep it simple stupid.

Most airlines dont value good trainers. People train who love training. Doesnt necessarily mean they are good at it. Unless you compensate good dispatchers what they are worth to train then you will get a wide variety of outcomes from the trainers that are left over.

 

[Green12324]

I think it's important for trainers to focus on teaching policy/reinforcing standard operating procedures, as opposed to introducing trainees to excessive personal techniques. You're right it gets very confusing to a new hire if they are taught to do something one way in the classroom, then they go to OJT and 5 instructors tell them 5 different ways of doing it. There will be plenty of time after training for them to pick up various techniques.

Outside of a training environment, as long as folks aren't violating FARs/policies/etc, I think it's OK to have a personal style. We all have different knowledge, experience, and personalities, and that's part of the value of having a human individually evaluate each flight. Of course there are some things that have to be done in a standard way every time (the anti-ice planning you mentioned sounds like they are just doing it wrong,) but I think there are a lot decisions that require individual discretion, and everyone is a little different.

 

[Dxer5138]

I wholeheartedly agree that there's needs to be some semblance of standardization. Flight training was the exact same way; every single pilot would suggest a different way of doing the same thing. It's great to have different perspectives once you have some experience, but in my opinion, it really hinders someone in training, whether it be dispatching, or flying.

 

[MT]

I would guess you want to sit at home collecting unemployment too. If we make everything that standardized, then a computer can easily be programmed to do that.

I will admit that there are people training who shouldn’t be. Some of your examples are quite heinous, yes. However, it is possible to dispatch the same flight within policy, yet have completely different releases and fuel loads. That’s not a bad thing. Each dispatcher has their own risk analysis and tolerance.

 

[gopherdx]

I would guess you want to sit at home collecting unemployment too. If we make everything that standardized, then a computer can easily be programmed to do that.

I will admit that there are people training who shouldn’t be. Some of your examples are quite heinous, yes. However, it is possible to dispatch the same flight within policy, yet have completely different releases and fuel loads. That’s not a bad thing. Each dispatcher has their own risk analysis and tolerance.

This.

 

[F9DXER]

For those that are trainers, train to the company standards/policy. It makes it easier for everyone.
There is nothing wrong with showing a trainee a different way and why you may use it. Yet remind them that they will be tested on company policy/procedures. Thus learn your bad habits after you pass the desk check

Now, how remarks are written and in what order are up for debate. Just make sure you have the remarks that are needed and/or required.

I knew a dispatcher that would write a dissertation on why there was no significant weather along route and then give 45 min extra for possible en-route weather.

 

[gopherdx]

For those that are trainers, train to the company standards/policy. It makes it easier for everyone.
There is nothing wrong with showing a trainee a different way and why you may use it. Yet remind them that they will be tested on company policy/procedures. Thus learn your bad habits after you pass the desk check

Now, how remarks are written and in what order are up for debate. Just make sure you have the remarks that are needed and/or required.

I knew a dispatcher that would write a dissertation on why there was no significant weather along route and then give 45 min extra for possible en-route weather.

Big pet peeve of mine is no remarks. A huge part of our daily tasks is to avoid phone calls from pilots with questions that can easily be answered with a simple remarks. On top of the required remarks for any additional fuel, MEL’s, etc.

 

[DessertDx]

"If I add an alternate it automatically gets 20 mins hold"
"If you are in class B airspace you get a 1000lb add minimum"

Who are these people? Eating at my profit sharing bonus like there's no tomorrow.

 

[A1TAPE]

Big pet peeve of mine is no remarks. A huge part of our daily tasks is to avoid phone calls from pilots with questions that can easily be answered with a simple remarks. On top of the required remarks for any additional fuel, MEL’s, etc.

That is IF they even bother to read the remarks or the release at all prior to signing for it.

 

[gopherdx]

That is IF they even bother to read the remarks or the release at all prior to signing for it.

Yes but I have found most do

 

[autosave36]

Yes but I have found most do

I feel like the further you get in the field the more the pilots read the remarks.
At the regionals, I would get a call or two every day for something I remarked.
Here at the majors, that almost never happens.
Just like we are growing a skill set at the regionals, so are the pilots.

 

[inwx_dxr]

The training where I'm at is terrible. People get signed off that shouldn't of been. Recently, one person didn't even know what a diversion was. The training is rushed and the newbies feel stressed. It's not their fault the company shafted them with the terrible and unorganized training. Before being a dispatcher, I was a trainer for the ramp for a mainline carrier... I had a (minimum) 2 page checklist just to sign someone off on one type of ground equipment (tug, belt loader, ect)... By the end of new hire training, the new hire and I would sign at least 15-20 documents for equipment and other procedures. The place I'm at now, you ask? Just one signature signs you off to be a dispatcher.

 

[autosave36]

The training where I'm at is terrible. People get signed off that shouldn't of been. Recently, one person didn't even know what a diversion was. The training is rushed and the newbies feel stressed. It's not their fault the company shafted them with the terrible and unorganized training. Before being a dispatcher, I was a trainer for the ramp for a mainline carrier... I had a (minimum) 2 page checklist just to sign someone off on one type of ground equipment (tug, belt loader, ect)... By the end of new hire training, the new hire and I would sign at least 15-20 documents for equipment and other procedures. The place I'm at now, you ask? Just one signature signs you off to be a dispatcher.

Well the number of things you sign is irrelevant as with one signature you are confirming the competence of a person on 50+ parameters, all of which are to be demonstrated over a 8-10 hour desk check.

 

[azmedic]

100% standardization is how you automate yourself out of a job. As long as FARs and the DOM aren’t being broken there’s nothing wrong with a little tribal knowledge


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[F9DXER]

Yes but I have found most do

The only time they don't read it is when the first line says "Call Dispatch."

 

[retrodx]

100% standardization is how you automate yourself out of a job. As long as FARs and the DOM aren’t being broken there’s nothing wrong with a little tribal knowledge


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Tribal knowledge and experience is key. But so is critical thinking. There’s also nothing wrong with more standardization. All this computer and “automation is bad” talk is giving me Sarah Connor vibes. Is this what it was like when the old heads transitioned from paper to computers? “We can’t stop using paper, what if my monitor stops working? How will I see or fight follow?” “What about Y2K, pal.”

In a perfect day and with a great ATC system *not you ZJX*, that specific regional knowledge and experience is still valuable. To me, what OP is getting at is towards personal preference procedures that take experience and blast a shotgun solution for everything. “I just do it this way for all my flights because one time I had a guy divert for x reason” or “I always add extra fuel and put an alternate because it saves me a call”. Not efficient or particularly standard depending on company policy.

TLDR: More standardization is ok

 

[DessertDx]

“I just do it this way for all my flights because one time I had a guy divert for x reason”

PNW desk got me like…