Dilemma..

Douglas said:
CFI
Why not stay local to do your CFI if you don't want to leave the wife and job for 30 days?
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Few reasons:

A. They do not have an extensive crash course program.
B. The instructors that are "qualified" or meet the requirements to train CFI's are not necessarily i would get training from.
C. I Spoke with chief pilot and the hiring manager, and they both said i am better of going to ATP or American Flyers. I dont know if this is something i should be concerned over, but i do know if i get employed with them, i will have a busy year.
 
Well, to post again what I posted in a different thread.

At this point, you know where all the information is, what to study and how.
I did it on my own, meeting with a study buddy most nights to bounce ideas off of. (Certificate took a little over a month once we were serious)

If you don't want to do it local, fine; I'm just saying that this rating is mostly on you anyway, so you shouldn't feel too trapped between a rock and hard place. There is very little a CFI Instructor can do besides tell you little stories of previous students and ask you if you know everything yet.

It worked well for me, but some like the mills.
 
Douglas said:
Well, to post again what I posted in a different thread.

At this point, you know where all the information is, what to study and how.
I did it on my own, meeting with a study buddy most nights to bounce ideas off of. (Certificate took a little over a month once we were serious)

If you don't want to do it local, fine; I'm just saying that this rating is mostly on you anyway, so you shouldn't feel too trapped between a rock and hard place. There is very little a CFI Instructor can do besides tell you little stories of previous students and ask you if you know everything yet.

It worked well for me, but some like the mills.
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Do you have CFI and II?
 
Timbo said:
"Plus will walk away with 2 Ratings, and i am quite sure i can secure a CFI position at my local flight school, where i acquired all of my 3 initial ratings"

Man, that sounds an awful lot like a "Pay for training" thingy, and we CAN'T have that now, can we??!! You would be taking the job of some poor sod who won't get off the couch to get his tickets after all, shouldn't your local flight school be PAYING YOU to get that training??

<edited> Stay at home and wait for the phone to ring, what ever you do, DO NOT PAY for your training, and don't do it for free either, if they offer you that...
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Go back to APC! There is a difference in PFT/PFJ and CFI/CFII/MEI. It's akin to a commercial rating! But you probably didn't know that. Because from the looks for your profile, you should be thanking Uncle Sam(i.e. American tax payers) for your ratings.
 
TopGunn said:
:beer:


CFI it is!

Any one here has any words to type about American Flyer trainign program?
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I did my CFI/II at American Flyers. It was worth it but I was single and had the time and money to spare. I liked the class size (made studying and lesson plans a breeze), the instructors were decent enough and the MX was never an issue.
That being said, make sure you know EXACTLY what your cash out lay is going to be. If they want all the money upfront tell em you'll do 30% to start and 30% mid course and the remainder before the check ride. It pissed em off but they did that for me in 2000. And ask em about housing, they took care of that as well.
But if I were in your shoes, I'd stay home and do it local. There's nothing worth bailing on the family for 30 days if you don't absolutely have to.
 
I would do both! Depending on how much business you obtain as a CFI there will probably be gaps in your work. So maybe you could be a part time CFI and if the other job goes south...well then you have the CFI to fall back on. Either Way + 1 for the CFI and Good luck!!!:)
 
mshunter said:
Go back to APC! There is a difference in PFT/PFJ and CFI/CFII/MEI. It's akin to a commercial rating! But you probably didn't know that. Because from the looks for your profile, you should be thanking Uncle Sam(i.e. American tax payers) for your ratings.
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The military does not give you ratings, the FAA does...

While I did some KC 135 flying for Uncle, when I joined the Air Guard in 1983, I already had 4,500 hours, with about 4,000 of it flying an AC 690, N9166N, cancelled checks all night. BOS-JFK-DTW-JFK-BOS.

I started PAYING for all my flying lessons in a J3, when I was 14. I was working as a buss boy at a local place, walking to/from work, at night, in New Hampshire, in January...

I got jobs pounding nails, in the day and bartending at night, and spent just about every cent of what I earned on my Int. and Multi tickets, then I started working on my CFI. This was during my Senior year in HS and my fresman/sophmore years of Colege, which I was also paying for with MY money, not Mommy or Daddy's money.

My Dad was a very poor CFI with 6 kids, I was number 2 of that lot. He then got a job flying Beach 18's, cancelled checks at night. He did some of my Inst. and Multi instruction, but I was renting the plane from an FBO, and I paid for it, not him. I did have to pay him too, he charged me 1 sixpack of Bud per hour, or about $2.00 back then. (1974-78). He retired as a DC9 Captain at NW some years ago.

My plan of course was to go to the airlines as soon as I got out of College, but the ATC strike in 1981 shut down all airline hiring, so after two more years of flying the Turbo Commode at night, I joined the Air Guard.

But whe I interviewed, I did not get the first slot to come up, they first chose a girl with 10 hours in a C150 ahead of me. She went to UPT and busted EVERY checkride, and then she busted her KC 135 checkride too. So of course she's a 767 Capt. at American today...don't get me started.

I really don't get some of your attitudes, you want everything, all the time, but you are not willing to go out and "do what ever it takes" to get it. Well, no free rides in this industry.

The jobs are out there if you want them, but you might have to get off Facebook for a few minutes and go knock on doors. I'm just glad we didn't have the internet when I was building time, I'm sure I would have sat there typing insults and bashing anyone trying to get ahead, instead of looking for a good flying gig to build multi time, just like a lot of you are doing right now...

You want to talk about 'flying for free"? How about this instead:

Can any of you 1,500TT hot sticks tell me WHY the Employees of Delta Air Lines bought a brand new 767 for the company in 1983?? What a bunch of morons they were, they PAID for an airplane for the company!!

(Doug, do not PM them and tell them!)
 
Timbo said:
Can any of you 1,500TT hot sticks tell me WHY the Employees of Delta Air Lines bought a brand new 767 for the company in 1983?? What a bunch of morons they were, they PAID for an airplane for the company!!
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FYI, I pounded the pavement for my jobs, and networked the current one I am at. I have also never flown for free. When I was a CFI, I worked seven days a week for two years. At one point, I was working two FBO's at the same time,and bumping right up against my 8hrs a day max flying for almost five months straight. Don't preach to me about hard work. I may not have 17,000hrs, but the ones I have, I definitely earned, the hard way. I didn't pay someone to sit right seat for worthless time, and I never had to "volunteer" my time and de-value my (for lack of a better term) trade.

But to post something as pampas a "OMGZ, YOUR COMPANY SHOULD PAY FOR YOUR CFI'Z!!!!!" Thats just asking for a flame war. I'm not some punk kid either. I don't (as most guys see it) have SJS, spike my hair, "wear aviators because piletz do" with I-Phone ear buds and a backpack looking sloppy. This is my second career, although I have been around aviation since I was 8 years old. Realize that some of us on these forums, although we only have 1500tt (I have more than that, not a ton more, but more), we(most) have been around it for a while, seen the ups and downs, and seen what working for free has done, in the employers eyes to us. It has devalued the worth of a pilot. It's disgraceful that a regional carrier can pay a guy, and people are jumping all over each other at the chance to fly a "Big Shiny Jet" ,$16-$17k a year. I'd imagine that you made substantially more than that when you started in this career.

PFJ/PFT has exploded. Look in the back of a Flying Magazine, AOPA, AOPA Flight Training, etc., and tell me how many you see.


And from your description, it sounds as if you never have flow for free either. So why advocate for it now? Oh wait, what do you care, your career is almost over. I'm sure retirement is right around the corner for you. I just hope for your sake, the free flying your advocating doesn't screw you out of what was once a much better retirement plan.
 
Timbo said:
Can any of you 1,500TT hot sticks tell me WHY the Employees of Delta Air Lines bought a brand new 767 for the company in 1983?? What a bunch of morons they were, they PAID for an airplane for the company!!

(Doug, do not PM them and tell them!)
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They did it to show their appriciation for the company who had given them so much, but was having a tough time financially. ATC strike, fuel costs, recovering economy....etc. The Spirit of Delta was the first 767 online with the company.

As a not close to 1500TT hot stick, but a 40 year old career changing car dealer, I applaud the employees of any company that will go the extra mile to help out.

That being said, show me a company that will take care of it's employees the way Delta did in the 35 years before "Spirit" came online and I'll show you an outdated business model. Replaced by cut all costs, charge any fee, make as much money for the shareholders "not that there is anything wrong with dividend checks" and screw the people who do the work bean counters.

I have no where near the experience in this field that you do and probably never will, but I know for fact that my time is valuable. I expect to be paid for said time.
I have flown for free, I have given my time to charity. I will be DAMNED if I'm going to work my ass off to let some cheap S.O.B. get by with "You got to pay your dues". I am paying my dues by showing up and flying ratted out 172's with half brain dead college kids and MILF's that want "figure out what all the fuss is about". I'm paying my dues by taking the phone call at 9 p.m. when the boss calls and says " I need you to pick up Senator Nuckingfuts at SRQ tomorrow at 0600". But I make a somewhat livable wage while "paying my dues". From the looks of it you did too.
 
TopGunn said:
Fellow pilots, i am looking for a mass opinion/advise. I am scheduled to go to CFI school in September for 30 days with American Flyers at Pompano Beach, FL.. The cost of CFI - CFII program will be $2,995. It will be a 30 day school. I think it is fairly a good price for a complete program. Plus will walk away with 2 Ratings, and i am quite sure i can secure a CFI position at my local flight school, where i acquired all of my 3 initial ratings.

On the other hand, i have a local gig that will allow me to fly traffic 3 times a day and build hours. I have not acquired the position yet, but it is not impossible either. What would you do if you were in my situation?

Understand this, i will not have any source of income for 30 days, plus i will be away from my pregnant wife and daughter :(. It is a tough bullet to bite but i am leaning more towards getting my instructor's rating. I think it will make me much better and more qualified pilot.

All inputs are welcomed. :beer:
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get MORE info on Am Flyers before you go. I have heard more often then not that 30 Days and the price quoted are just a starting point! The time it takes and money it cost depends on "You".

If at all possible do it local. If not, search around and see what else there is. The place I did mine did cfi, II, and MEI in a month.
 
mooneyguy said:
get MORE info on Am Flyers before you go. I have heard more often then not that 30 Days and the price quoted are just a starting point! The time it takes and money it cost depends on "You".

If at all possible do it local. If not, search around and see what else there is. The place I did mine did cfi, II, and MEI in a month.
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What is the name of your place?
 
At the risk of being in the minority, I would do the traffic watch thing because it is a "sure thing" and it available right now.

Currently there are enough licensed CFI's in this country to train 540,000 students annually. Unfortunately we are way overstaffed on CFI's at this time. There is no CFI shortage! There are currently 3 CFI's for every flight school student. That is why it is so difficult to make money as a CFI in todays training environment. I don't know why the flight schools don't let you know this information. Well maybe I do!

Also, I've heard that when you get down to American Flyers on these CFI programs, it can take longer than the 30 days that is advertised and it can also turn out to be much more expensive than the initial price quoted. So if you do get involved here, make sure you understand how the time and dollars are figured.

You can add the CFI at anytime. I would wait until the market comes back around before adding a CFI rating since it is advertised to be able to be done in just 30 days.

In addition you have to keep a CFI rating current or you lose it and have to start all over again. It would be a real pisser to have to spend money to keep your CFI current when you don't have enough students to justify the time, effort and return on investment.

Just my opinion.....

Joe
 
Timbo said:
But whe I interviewed, I did not get the first slot to come up, they first chose a girl with 10 hours in a C150 ahead of me. She went to UPT and busted EVERY checkride, and then she busted her KC 135 checkride too. So of course she's a 767 Capt. at American today...don't get me started.


So much for the theory that the military washes out all of its below average pilots.
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mwflyer said:
Timbo said:
But whe I interviewed, I did not get the first slot to come up, they first chose a girl with 10 hours in a C150 ahead of me. She went to UPT and busted EVERY checkride, and then she busted her KC 135 checkride too. So of course she's a 767 Capt. at American today...don't get me started.


So much for the theory that the military washes out all of its below average pilots.
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Actually, the Air Force -did- want to wash her out. But since she belonged to a Guard Unit, they first called home to tell our unit she was on her way out. At that time (1983) there was a big push on the Military to bring more women into the cockpit. My unit did not have any women flight crew members and "needed one bad". So, the Boss (a Nav, not a Pilot) told the guys at Training, "Just put her through the program, we'll teach her to fly when she gets home." Famous last words.

Some years later she sued out unit because they refused to upgrade her to Aircraft Commander. She lost the suit, but the whole mess caused a lot of problems for the guys in the training dept and every girl hired after that was put under a microscope.

BTW, American and United had to hire a lot of girls back then too, same reason. She was hired at AA with a total time of 750 hours, NONE of it, except her solo time, was as PIC. We had other pilots in the unit with thousands of hours as PIC on big jets, and even a couple who had flown in Viet Nam, they couldn't get hired, but she did...
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how did this thread get off subject?

this thread is about going and getting more ratings or going to a job and getting the ratings on the side. not about any type of free this or that.

let's get back to topic please and take the other talk to another new thread or something.


TopGunn.....what job are you doing now? have you spoken to your boss to see if he will allow you to take time off to get your ratings and come back to the same job or would you be out of a job?

reason i ask is because in this *particular* day and age, jobs are hard to find...ratings can always be purchased. of course having the ratings would prove better over time and down the line but you need to have a job in order to pay for the ratings.

see the quandry?

now if you talked to your boss or the traffic job and they will allow you to begin after you're done getting the ratings, then you have a pretty good deal...but you really need to try and keep a flying job right now IMO because so many don't have one
 
JOEFRIDAY2 said:
At the risk of being in the minority, I would do the traffic watch thing because it is a "sure thing" and it available right now.

Currently there are enough licensed CFI's in this country to train 540,000 students annually. Unfortunately we are way overstaffed on CFI's at this time. There is no CFI shortage! There are currently 3 CFI's for every flight school student. That is why it is so difficult to make money as a CFI in todays training environment. I don't know why the flight schools don't let you know this information. Well maybe I do!

Also, I've heard that when you get down to American Flyers on these CFI programs, it can take longer than the 30 days that is advertised and it can also turn out to be much more expensive than the initial price quoted. So if you do get involved here, make sure you understand how the time and dollars are figured.

You can add the CFI at anytime. I would wait until the market comes back around before adding a CFI rating since it is advertised to be able to be done in just 30 days.

In addition you have to keep a CFI rating current or you lose it and have to start all over again. It would be a real pisser to have to spend money to keep your CFI current when you don't have enough students to justify the time, effort and return on investment.

Just my opinion.....

Joe
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you've posted those cfi stats in a few threads. how many of those cfis are active?

though it's been at least 8 years since i've been in a light a/c and at least 10 years since i've instructed, i renew online every 2 years. some of my coworkers are in similar positions.

i'm not arguing that there are a lot of cfis, i just don't think there are as many active cfis as those numbers suggest.
 
gne in prog said:
you've posted those cfi stats in a few threads. how many of those cfis are active?

though it's been at least 8 years since i've been in a light a/c and at least 10 years since i've instructed, i renew online every 2 years. some of my coworkers are in similar positions.

i'm not arguing that there are a lot of cfis, i just don't think there are as many active cfis as those numbers suggest.
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:yeahthat: Most of the time, stats are meaningless number politicians use to make people vote fot them. CFI stas are one of them. I am a CFI, but no longer an active one (not by choice either. I have no airplanes to instruct in).
 
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