DFW - Envoy or PSA

CoffeeIcePapers

CoffeeIcePapers

Well-Hung Member
From what I understand, commuting to PSA isn't all that bad, due to their scheduling system. At Envoy, I would potentially live in base, but I hear their schedules aren't very good. I want to spend the least amount of time on the road as possible. Which of these would allow me to meet that goal?
 
All else being equal, go with the airline in base versus commuting. Reserve at your home can be nice.
 
If you already live in base, work in base I'm writing this as if you have no previous airline experience, but trust me. you DO NOT want to commute to regional reserve if you can at all avoid it, which you can.
 
bretthullrampage said:
Living in base is the best thing you can do for your QOL. Don't commute.
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I dispute this notion. I commute, and I think the most important thing for my QOL is the SAP that PSA has. All of my trips are commutable on both ends 95% of the time and they are usually decent credit. And I get 17-18 days off on a typical month for me. Living in base and working at another regional would have its upsides, namely, driving home instead of catching a flight, but then again I likely wouldn't have the same amount of time off each month nor would I have the exact days and holidays I want off either. Commuting is different levels of tolerable to different people. To me, the cost/benefit analysis strongly favors the benefit side to commuting.
 
Go to Envoy. My understanding is their flow is also significantly faster than PSA's.
 
chrisreedrules said:
I dispute this notion. I commute, and I think the most important thing for my QOL is the SAP that PSA has. All of my trips are commutable on both ends 95% of the time and they are usually decent credit. And I get 17-18 days off on a typical month for me. Living in base and working at another regional would have its upsides, namely, driving home instead of catching a flight, but then again I likely wouldn't have the same amount of time off each month nor would I have the exact days and holidays I want off either. Commuting is different levels of tolerable to different people. To me, the cost/benefit analysis strongly favors the benefit side to commuting.
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OMG here we go again PSA lover lol. I call the referral!!!!!!
 
Freecos said:
OMG here we go again PSA lover lol. I call the referral!!!!!!
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I actually did not recommend PSA to the OP. I spelled out the pros/cons of each as I know them to be. And I am personally very happy at PSA. I couldn't imagine a scenario for me that would have worked out better. That may not be the case for everyone. I just think there is something to be said for commuting to somewhere that can afford you better QOL overall than living in base somewhere with longer reserve, longer upgrade, and potential displacements in the future because they are transferring aircraft. I'm not knocking Envoy, I think they are a great career choice. I just think all variables should be weighed.
 
chrisreedrules said:
As of right now, yes. But over time (so, what would benefit a new hire) they become much more similar.
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Does the PSA flow agreement have provisions to increase? I'm not completely versed on it, but I thought it was 60 pilots flowed a year. At 1500 pilots, that's 25 years conservatively. (i dont count attrition because its an unpredictable variable)
 
RORO said:
Does the PSA flow agreement have provisions to increase? I'm not completely versed on it, but I thought it was 60 pilots flowed a year. At 1500 pilots, that's 25 years conservatively. (i dont count attrition because its an unpredictable variable)
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Yes, it does. The way our flow language is written currently we can flow 96 /year (8 /month) based on the number of "active CAs" on our seniority list. That plus outside attrition would mean rapid progression up the seniority list for FOs and junior CAs just like at Envoy and Piedmont. We are also awaiting the results of our critical pay arbitration which many have speculated will entail some sort of increase in our flow among other things. We are also in negotiations with the company to increase the flow outside of this arbitration, however the company hasn't wanted to agree to or negotiate anything until the arbitrator's final decision is known.
 
chrisreedrules said:
I dispute this notion. I commute, and I think the most important thing for my QOL is the SAP that PSA has. All of my trips are commutable on both ends 95% of the time and they are usually decent credit. And I get 17-18 days off on a typical month for me. Living in base and working at another regional would have its upsides, namely, driving home instead of catching a flight, but then again I likely wouldn't have the same amount of time off each month nor would I have the exact days and holidays I want off either. Commuting is different levels of tolerable to different people. To me, the cost/benefit analysis strongly favors the benefit side to commuting.
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But youve never lived in base. Its a 100% completely different job driving to work. Ive done both and much prefer the non commute.
 
bretthullrampage said:
But youve never lived in base. Its a 100% completely different job driving to work. Ive done both and much prefer the non commute.
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I stayed with family while on reserve and thankfully didn't need a crash pad. So I have a pretty good idea of the quality of life improvement of being able to drive home after finishing a trip vs catching a flight then driving home. But, I also don't particularly care to live in CLT or in North Carolina for that matter. I live 5 minutes from the beach in a house that's paid for and I have rental property and other things tying me to Florida. Which is why I said earlier that commuting is, "different levels of tolerable to different people". For me, I would rather commute from halfway across the country and a place I enjoy living than live in base somewhere I don't want to live. Especially when I'm home more than I'm at work.
 
CoffeeIcePapers said:
If I don't want to fly and get senior enough to hold a line, do I just continue to bid reserve and hope they don't call?
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In theory that would work, but envoy is a regional airline and regional airlines especially envoy likes to burn all their reserves everyday.

The absolute best situation for not flying and being home in base was when I was sitting ready reserve for 4 years 2007-2011 at eagle as a Dfw crj FO. I flew maybe 150 hours in 4 years and was home virtually every night living in base. Just collected my 75hr guarantee every month. Except for a 3 month period in 2008 when I got displaced to another airframe for about 5 months (2 months of training and 3 out on the line) as #30 on a list of 180 DFW reserve FO's watched them burn up 100 reserves every day, scheduling never got to my number - so didn't get to fly for 3 months as an emb-145 reserve DFW FO - I failed to consolidate. And was back to ready reserve as a DfW CRJ FO for 3 more years. Again total flight time for my first 4 years at eagle was less than 150 hrs. I think I saw more sim time getting PCs to get requalified than I did flying the actual airplane. when I had to go fly I had to be real careful because I didn't remember how to do anything.
 
woodreau said:
In theory that would work, but envoy is a regional airline and regional airlines especially envoy likes to burn all their reserves everyday.

The absolute best situation for not flying and being home in base was when I was sitting ready reserve for 4 years 2007-2011 at eagle as a Dfw crj FO. I flew maybe 150 hours in 4 years and was home virtually every night living in base. Just collected my 75hr guarantee every month. Except for a 3 month period in 2008 when I got displaced to another airframe for about 5 months (2 months of training and 3 out on the line) as #30 on a list of 180 DFW reserve FO's watched them burn up 100 reserves every day, scheduling never got to my number - so didn't get to fly for 3 months as an emb-145 reserve DFW FO - I failed to consolidate. And was back to ready reserve as a DfW CRJ FO for 3 more years. Again total flight time for my first 4 years at eagle was less than 150 hrs. I think I saw more sim time getting PCs to get requalified than I did flying the actual airplane. when I had to go fly I had to be real careful because I didn't remember how to do anything.
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Well, I don't quite want that level of apathy. Ideally, I would fly 40-50 hours a month and maximize my flight hours when I'm on the road.

I'd want to be able to dedicate 10 days a month to my part time job.
 
Living in base changes this job. I was just transferred to where I live versus commuting to reserve and I have tons of free time now vs. being gone for six days and making it home for one day.
 
FWIW it's not only regionals that burn their reserves every day. My shop does too. Oh... wait. I think I just hurt my own feelings.


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