Delta vs UPS TA video

After all the years of pax carrier union negotiating teams telling the company to NOT include the cargo carriers (who at that point paid less) in the "industry picture", it's kind of funny that we want them included now.
I'm sure if all the cargo carriers were included, we'd drag that average down a good bit.
 
Only include cargo in the comparison if you can exclude us scummy ones that make half as much as everyone else, haha.
 
I'm sure if all the cargo carriers were included, we'd drag that average down a good bit.

Bingo. It's one thing to include FedEx and UPS in the mix...its a totally different thing to include all the ACMI folks who pay total nut-sack in the mix.
 
After all the years of pax carrier union negotiating teams telling the company to NOT include the cargo carriers (who at that point paid less) in the "industry picture", it's kind of funny that we want them included now.

If they approach it from a pilot recruitment platform it would make more sense, but I dont believe they have caught on yet.
 
Not sure I would agree. Look at the contracts :bang:

I meant that pilots tend to cherry pick from other contracts about what they think they should have. You want Southwest pay? Fine. You get Southwest retirement (now improved). You like Spirit's blocking between trips? Ok, you get their pay then. Management tends to do the same thing, in the opposite direction of course.
 
I meant that pilots tend to cherry pick from other contracts about what they think they should have. You want Southwest pay? Fine. You get Southwest retirement (now improved). You like Spirit's blocking between trips? Ok, you get their pay then. Management tends to do the same thing, in the opposite direction of course.

Big thing at SouthernJets right now is the We demand UPS+1 pay.

Me: Oh ok so you want to Payband all the widebodies at UPS+1 pay?

Strong Pilot: No no just the 75/76 then raise everything else in porportion.

Me: That's cherry picking

Strong Pilot: We Deserve it!
 
Big thing at SouthernJets right now is the We demand UPS+1 pay.

Me: Oh ok so you want to Payband all the widebodies at UPS+1 pay?

Strong Pilot: No no just the 75/76 then raise everything else in porportion.

Me: That's cherry picking

Strong Pilot: We Deserve it!

With this new contract, did UPS just jump FDX?
 
Big thing at SouthernJets right now is the We demand UPS+1 pay.

Me: Oh ok so you want to Payband all the widebodies at UPS+1 pay?

Strong Pilot: No no just the 75/76 then raise everything else in porportion.

Me: That's cherry picking

Strong Pilot: We Deserve it!
You're not about pay banding? There sure are a lot of 737-900's showing up and a lot of 757's being parked.
 
I want all the widebodies to pay whatever the new 777 rate is. What's so bad about that?

The argument goes:

Let's say you have 9 airplane types, and each pays a different rate. Let's also say you are thinking about going to banding, and want to have 3 airplanes in each of 3 bands.

This assumes everyone is content with the staffing aspect of pay banding. The theory goes that people jump airplanes for money; and this causes training churn, which makes pilots unavailable. By eliminating the churn somewhat, you effectively increase productivity. If you are getting a raise out of the deal, it becomes a "pay for jobs" discussion.

So now we implement the banding as part of a PWA. You set up your pay bands and dollop a 10% raise on the highest rate in your new band, and each aircraft in each band "snaps up" to the highest rate in each band.

Everyone's happy, right?

Wrong.

The pilots already on the highest paying equipment in each band get a 10% raise. Good news, right?

But the pilots in the formerly lower paying aircraft in the new pay bands get a "bigger raise" because their pay snaps to the highest in each band. They get the pay bump to the highest AND get the 10% raise.

"Not fair". "Your choosing winners and losers!" are some comments, in addition to those who are opposed on the staffing issue.

Getting the 10% raise isn't the issue. The issue is that a large group of pilots in each band are getting bigger "raises". If it's one thing a pilot hates worse than a good deal, and that's someone else getting a better deal, even if that "better deal" is making the same money.

When you stop to think about advancement, the pilots at the top of the lower bands have access to the top pay in the next band sooner than they might have; that dampens that argument some. What's left is the pilots already at the very top who are left with just the 10% raise.

As always, things are more complicated than they seem.

Richman
 
not to mention since we only have so few 777s those guys will be wishing the 330/350 paid the 777 rate when they go away.....care to give us a history lesson @Seggy ?
 
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