Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
I have no alpaca in this race, but I believe you need facts to back up your interpretation of the TA. All you are doing is saying the opposite of what the no voters are saying.
Delta TA
- Thread starter derg
- Start date
I have no alpaca in this race, but I believe you need facts to back up your interpretation of the TA. All you are doing is saying the opposite of what the no voters are saying.
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
In a time where regional partners are having difficulty staffing their flying, any additional airframes for said regionals is giving up scope on the lower end.
With the current industry happenings, we (mainline) should not be giving one airframe, one seat, or one more mile away. That wound has bled enough.
I was hoping for one that Delta just might be the legacy that actually started recapturing scope this time through...
SurferLucas
Southern Gentleman
Don't you mean no ALPAca?
motormadness24
Well-Known Member
No dog in this fight, just a listener. For the rest of us little guys who aspire to be just like you, please please please do not give up scope. I see Delta put out some propaganda about purchasing 20 190's and 40 more 739's if you ratify this. See through the cards, they're buying 190's either way. Don't sell the farm to get a new 100 seater type added. I get not being able to retrieve 2004 pay+inflation. I think we need a balance so that when the next economical downturn hits, you don't burn down your own house. Don't give up the scope from the bottom with the regionals, and don't give it up through the top with JV's.
Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
Eh...I wouldn't worry about the regional stuff so much. Don't give away the store, but you gotta have pilots to fly the RJs. The best way to kill the regional shell game isn't scope, but supply and demand. It's been so crappy for so long and the cost to enter is so high that nobody wants to do it anymore. To attract people they'll have to sweeten the pot, to do that you might as well pull the feed in house because you won't save any money that way.
Hence the 100 seaters.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-acquire-20-embraer-e190s-025200151.html
"ATLANTA, June 10, 2015 /PRNewswire/ -- Delta Air Lines (DAL) will enter into an aircraft acquisition deal with The Boeing Co. for 20 Embraer E190 aircraft and 40 additional new 737-900ERs upon ratification of a tentative agreement covering more than 12,000 Delta pilots. The tentative agreement was approved for membership ratification today by the Delta Master Executive Council (MEC) of the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA).
The tentative agreement provides enhancements to overall pilot compensation—including base pay increases—along with a revision of the airline's profit sharing formula beginning in 2016. Additionally, this accord would secure additional career advancement opportunities for Delta pilots while providing the airline with productivity enhancements and further fleet flexibility across the airline's U.S. domestic system.
"Our airline's culture of working and winning together has long set Delta apart from others in our industry," said Richard Anderson, Delta's Chief Executive Officer. "This tentative agreement with ALPA reflects the key role and contributions of our pilots in our excellent financial and operational performance."
The MEC will put the tentative agreement out to pilots for a ratification vote. If approved, the agreement would have an amendable date of Dec. 31, 2018.
"We fully support the Delta MEC's endorsement of this agreement and are optimistic of its approval by our pilots," Anderson said. "This continues the investments we've made in our people and in our products and services for our customers. These moves will continue to drive the industry-leading performance that has allowed us to return more than $3 billion to shareholders and still reward our employees with industry-leading profit sharing."
Upon ratification of the agreement, Delta will acquire 20 Boeing-held Embraer E190 aircraft previously operated by another carrier. The E190s will enter mainline Delta service in the fourth quarter of 2016.
"These 98-seat mainline aircraft will be flown by Delta pilots," Anderson said. "The capability and aptitude of all Delta people has already shown that they are the best in the business at managing a diverse fleet while keeping costs in check and never compromising safety. These cost-efficient aircraft will play a key role as we strive to achieve higher returns for our shareholders, and we thank Boeing for their important partnership."
The E190 will be deployed on U.S. domestic routes to improve the flying experience for Delta customers and continue the shift of flying away from inefficient 50-seat regional jets as part of the company's successful upgauging strategy.
Delta will also order an additional 40 new Boeing 737-900ERs, augmenting an existing order of the efficient and reliable aircraft to 140 in total. Delta plans to deploy these aircraft as replacements for other narrowbody aircraft scheduled to retire through 2019.
Negotiating committees for Delta and ALPA reached a tentative agreement on June 4. In the ensuing days, the tentative agreement was reviewed and subsequently approved by the Delta MEC on June 10."
Sounds like the company REALLY wants this putting out a news release for more aircraft if it passes. I'd be very weary anytime any company floats a carrot like that. It smells bad when the company ties airframes to a contract. Sounds like something Mesa and JO would do....
"ATLANTA, June 10, 2015 /PRNewswire/ -- Delta Air Lines (DAL) will enter into an aircraft acquisition deal with The Boeing Co. for 20 Embraer E190 aircraft and 40 additional new 737-900ERs upon ratification of a tentative agreement covering more than 12,000 Delta pilots. The tentative agreement was approved for membership ratification today by the Delta Master Executive Council (MEC) of the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA).
The tentative agreement provides enhancements to overall pilot compensation—including base pay increases—along with a revision of the airline's profit sharing formula beginning in 2016. Additionally, this accord would secure additional career advancement opportunities for Delta pilots while providing the airline with productivity enhancements and further fleet flexibility across the airline's U.S. domestic system.
"Our airline's culture of working and winning together has long set Delta apart from others in our industry," said Richard Anderson, Delta's Chief Executive Officer. "This tentative agreement with ALPA reflects the key role and contributions of our pilots in our excellent financial and operational performance."
The MEC will put the tentative agreement out to pilots for a ratification vote. If approved, the agreement would have an amendable date of Dec. 31, 2018.
"We fully support the Delta MEC's endorsement of this agreement and are optimistic of its approval by our pilots," Anderson said. "This continues the investments we've made in our people and in our products and services for our customers. These moves will continue to drive the industry-leading performance that has allowed us to return more than $3 billion to shareholders and still reward our employees with industry-leading profit sharing."
Upon ratification of the agreement, Delta will acquire 20 Boeing-held Embraer E190 aircraft previously operated by another carrier. The E190s will enter mainline Delta service in the fourth quarter of 2016.
"These 98-seat mainline aircraft will be flown by Delta pilots," Anderson said. "The capability and aptitude of all Delta people has already shown that they are the best in the business at managing a diverse fleet while keeping costs in check and never compromising safety. These cost-efficient aircraft will play a key role as we strive to achieve higher returns for our shareholders, and we thank Boeing for their important partnership."
The E190 will be deployed on U.S. domestic routes to improve the flying experience for Delta customers and continue the shift of flying away from inefficient 50-seat regional jets as part of the company's successful upgauging strategy.
Delta will also order an additional 40 new Boeing 737-900ERs, augmenting an existing order of the efficient and reliable aircraft to 140 in total. Delta plans to deploy these aircraft as replacements for other narrowbody aircraft scheduled to retire through 2019.
Negotiating committees for Delta and ALPA reached a tentative agreement on June 4. In the ensuing days, the tentative agreement was reviewed and subsequently approved by the Delta MEC on June 10."
Sounds like the company REALLY wants this putting out a news release for more aircraft if it passes. I'd be very weary anytime any company floats a carrot like that. It smells bad when the company ties airframes to a contract. Sounds like something Mesa and JO would do....
H46Bubba
Well-Known Member
No..no..no..no! No more friggin 737-900s! We don't need damned EMB-190's either! In dual class configuration there won't be 100 seats.
motormadness24
Well-Known Member
Automatically fails the smell test.
PeanuckleCRJ
Poodle Wrangler
And there's the carrot.
I guess I can speak about this now since the cat is out of the bag... those 739 option exercises have been planned for at least 4 months now. Just they want to tie it to the contract now. How predictable.
Great way to reemphasize my no vote by getting more wiener dogs.
I guess I can speak about this now since the cat is out of the bag... those 739 option exercises have been planned for at least 4 months now. Just they want to tie it to the contract now. How predictable.
Great way to reemphasize my no vote by getting more wiener dogs.
H46Bubba
Well-Known Member
Exactly!And there's the carrot.
I guess I can speak about this now since the cat is out of the bag... those 739 option exercises have been planned for at least 4 months now. Just they want to tie it to the contract now. How predictable.
Great way to reemphasize my no vote by getting more wiener dogs.
They got those 40 options when we placed order for the 100. They have always planned on converting the options to orders. The loss of larger cargo space is making it harder to get large or heavy parts across country as well as cutting into cargo revenue.
PeanuckleCRJ
Poodle Wrangler
Preach it, seggy!
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Trip7
Well-Known Member
I don't doubt your numbers are accurate and my intent was not to come across as no jobs will be lost by certain concessions, however, there has been some wild numbers thrown out there like the LCP thing costing 1000 jobs. Folks are just pulling numbers out of thin air. One thing is for sure, even with the reduction in manning from certain concessions, historic hiring will still be needed. 1000+ pilots a year
There are still concerns needed to be answered about the JV. I'm confident ALPA will throughly explain this at the roadshow. One thing is for sure, the notion that the widebody fleet will be parked is ridiculous.
We've gone over the LCP thing ad nauseum. It's the worse concession I see. But I'll take that hit with the historic movement that is happening. But I completely understand why it's a showstopper for some.
And the we are not giving up scope. It's simple math. Scope = jobs. 450 DCI jets reduced to 425 plus better Mainline to DCI block hour ratio. Pilots seem to forget math as soon as they hear 76 seater.
skyw82
Well-Known Member
hmm, what airline has 20 e190s.... guess we know why they didnt paint them.
also are those 737-900s growth or replacements?
PeanuckleCRJ
Poodle Wrangler
Replacements.
H46Bubba
Well-Known Member
Boeing has them from a previous deal with another airline.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
The "planes are coming anyway" argument rebuttal has been cover ad nauseum.
The E190s are coming anyway to the tune of $140 for 12 yr Captain and $95 for 12 year FO. I'll be at $100 in a couple weeks on 2nd year 88/90 pay. Industry leading or B scale? That's an easy trade for a few withheld Check Airman lines
PeanuckleCRJ
Poodle Wrangler
Why give up so much in such an environment, though? The LCP thing is a big give... but actually it doesn't cost much in the way of jobs. It does cost all of us money, which seems to be a big focus of yours. With 75% of the LCP trips removed, that is a large amount of pilots kicked back to reserve, and thus less white and green slip ability.
Unfortunately, you aren't going to get that great of an explanation. The committee chair explained it to me in detail... much to my dismay.
Historic movement historic movement historic movement. Why put such a damper on the historic movement with these major gives? Thousands a year gets cut back to 500 a year with enough work rule gives. Does that speak to you?
More long term viable large jets that don't have a very short expiration stamp on them unlike the 50's. That IS a give, no matter how you try to justify it. For me, it was tolerable in the gives this time, but it IS a give. I was very happy with the block hour ratio tightened up.
I don't think you understand that math is one of my things...
PeanuckleCRJ
Poodle Wrangler
You obviously are a dollars only guy. A few more bucks and you're sold.
A few check airman lines? You're talking hundreds of pilots being pushed back to rsv and thousands of missed green slips.