Delta pay/payraise//benefits cuts talks?

[Kristie]

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DL can not be competitive with its pilot costs so far beyond the industry.

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What kind of an attitude is that? Delta shouldn't concede with concessions just cuz they're above the other airlines in pay rates (at the moment) - that's idiotic!! that would mean that all of the other airlines (united, AA, etc) would NEVER be able to get back to the pay rates they were paid before concessions were taken.... never again would there be equal competition because we all know the upper management folks want every cent in their pocket and they'd never give an extra dime to bring the rates back up to a competitive nature (in the future) - much less, they'd get away with murdering any contract negotiations in the future too...

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it will mean no growth for the mainline pilots or pilots in the future.

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and of course there will be growth within the airline - they're already majorly short of pilots but absolutely refuse to bring any of the furloughed guys back because they want to plead "woe is me" to get any financial backing from our good ol buddy system (gov't)... and they'll try to take concessions to show our good ol buddy system that "gee, we really need the money cuz we gave it all to our upper management - cuz why? we need a safety net, just in case the company goes under" - what about all of the employees doing the hard labor, getting the planes out on time, holding the company up and stable so far - they'd just get screwed from here on out!!

they're so short of pilots that they can't find enough 767/777 pilots because a whole sh*tload of them retired saying "I'm so outta here before I lose all my retirement benefits"... and a lot of the pilots are getting called when they're at home to "help delta out" because they can't find a pilot for this flight - or they have to cancel this flight because they have no pilots to fly it.... etc etc...

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DL can not be competitive with its pilot costs so far beyond the industry. Can DL limp along? Sure. But it will be ugly...

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If that's the case - then I want to see all of the 35 upper management folks who got bonus's & raises for the last 2 years resinded and the money that went into their retirement protection plan this year (wasn't it 75 million?) resinded as well as any bonus's, raises, stock option possiblities, retirement etc completely cut off for the next 5-8 years....and I want it written down in blood with no loopholes! and... (oh yeah - there's always more they can do! hahaha) take out Song - stick that money back into Delta and automatically hire back the FA's that went with Song - cuz man, they got a stinky rotten deal there!!

I think the employees with delta shouldn't be screwed with until management bones up the dollars they spent in the past 2 years (since 9/11) to keep what they call "quality staff"... Delta wouldn't be asking for such concessions if their "quality staff" was doing their job to protect their employees and keeping with the so called "loyalty" that leo said he'd rebuild years ago!!

if you think about it - it's the people that are out there doing the nitty gritty (ramp agents, baggage, ticket agents, F/A's, pilots etc) who should be considered "quality staff" cuz you can have management run the company - but probably not a single one can take on a customer's complaint, deal with boneheads in the air, much less fly the plane!!!

and if the union is going to play advocate and cater to the uppers by agreeing to any future concessions or benefit cuts (whatever), then all i have to say is:

"off with their heads"!!

 

[MedFlyer]

If all of DL's income came from CDG and Montana, then sure DL wouldn't have to worry. Unfortunately, most of DL's money doesn't come from those locations. It comes from place like Florida and Los Angeles where the likes of Airtran are eating DL's lunch.

Even if DL never spent a dime of money on Song or management pensions, they'd still be getting eaten alive by the low-fare carriers. Everybody on this site cheerleads when Airtran/JetBlue expand and buy new planes, yet they complain when the majors cut pilot pay. Don't you see the connection? You can't expect the majors to pay top dollar for pilots, yet still remain competitive with carrier who pay far less.

 

[derg]

Actually, Air Tran in eating no one's lunch in Florida -- they're probably not even in line for a table. And if so, Air Tran can probably order the sampler plate.

Air Tran doesn't even fly to LA -- Ryan Air flies to LA with an Airbus with Air Tran paint. Almost like saying Delta is eating United's lunch on the LAX to MRY leg where in reality Delta codeshares with American Eagle for the flight.

 

[derg]

Dodged the bullet, this time

This is Mike Pinho, Communications Committee Chairman, on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 with a special Code-a-Phone message.

The MEC met in special session in Cincinnati on July 22nd and 23rd. The MEC received in-depth briefings from ALPA's Economic and Financial Analysis Department, the Milestone Merchant Partners (investment banking firm), and the Strategic Planning Committee. The Negotiating Committee also provided the MEC with detailed information concerning management's July 15th proposal. Management maintains a two-phased approach as initially presented. Their approach requests significant pay reduction now, followed by Section 6 negotiations commencing in the fall of 2004. This concept is inconsistent with the MEC's vision of pilot investment in the financial recovery of our airline.

The MEC has philosophical differences with Delta management in three areas:

o Delta pilots require a contract extension as part of any agreement providing a strategic investment in our company.

o Delta pilots understand that our company has a long-term debt problem. The MEC believes there is a "Delta solution" to this "Delta problem." The MEC does not believe that our pilot costs must be aligned with the pilot costs at restructured airlines for our company to be profitable.

o Delta pilots feel strongly that all stakeholders must participate in our airline's recovery.

While there are significant differences in our philosophical perspectives on pilot involvement, your Negotiating Committee is prepared to engage in future negotiations in accordance with the direction of the MEC. This will occur when Delta management agrees to adopt the aforementioned philosophical imperatives.

Until then, we will continue to closely monitor the status of our industry. We stand ready to engage management when they appreciate the considerable value of pilot participation in the financial recovery of our airline.

 

[n77j]

MedFlyer,
Becareful about pilot salaries on this forum. The entire JC fans will slam you so hard

. Been there!
As for pilots pay- well maybe Mr. Mullin should ease down on his million dollar bonuses and salaries. And SONG....oh man... another $75 million down the drain.

 

[MikeD]

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MedFlyer,
Becareful about pilot salaries on this forum. The entire JC fans will slam you so hard

. Been there!
.

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Whatcha mean? Some airline pliots get paid a little too much anyway.

 

[n77j]

[/ QUOTE ]Whatcha mean? Some airline pliots get paid a little too much anyway.

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Yep....i said that and it turned out no one agreed for the most part. I got abused by everyone

.

 

[MikeD]

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[/ QUOTE ]Whatcha mean? Some airline pliots get paid a little too much anyway.

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Yep....i said that and it turned out no one agreed for the most part. I got abused by everyone

.

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I say that in the sense that I have the privilege of getting sent to whatever crappy part of the globe the Executive Branch dreams up, get to get shot at, in a very dated aircraft; and yet still make the same pay as an RJ Captain who's biggest worry is what approach he'll have the autopilot fly, how many cups of coffee he'll have, reading today's stock prices while in cruise, and still bitching about his low pay and "lousy" work conditions.

Just my simple take.

 

[derg]

Daffy, YOU need a raise man. Some of the stories I've heard from captains, coupled with the things they put Lewis through, man-o-man!

Besides, you shoot the bad guys.

 

[MikeD]

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Daffy, YOU need a raise man. Some of the stories I've heard from captains, coupled with the things they put Lewis through, man-o-man!

Besides, you shoot the bad guys.

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Agree. Some Air America gig would be nice. Am still considering the State Department's INL program, where I could fly OV-10s and get paid a couple hundred grand per year.

 

[pilot602]

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I got abused by everyone

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Yeah, but you liked it ...

 

[derg]

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Agree. Some Air America gig would be nice. Am still considering the State Department's INL program, where I could fly OV-10s and get paid a couple hundred grand per year.

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...and no more "G**dammit Daftarian! Shave and be a good example as an officer of the United States Air Force! All those ascot-wearing "Viper" guys are complainin'!"

 

[MikeD]

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Agree. Some Air America gig would be nice. Am still considering the State Department's INL program, where I could fly OV-10s and get paid a couple hundred grand per year.

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...and no more "G**dammit Daftarian! Shave and be a good example as an officer of the United States Air Force! All those ascot-wearing "Viper" guys are complainin'!"

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You ain't kidding. Just like when I was told to "Try and look the part of an Air Force officer....just for one day...."

 

[tonyw]

Yeah, but think of the job security.

That's what one of my friends who is in the Air Force said one day. He was telling me about all the things he doesn't like putting up with, and then he smiled and said (this came right after I got laid off) "but at least I have job security."