Delta Disqualifiers

[Dan208B]

Folks also keep in mind that hiring has just hit the tip of the iceberg. Just because your score is not high enough now doesn't mean it won't be soon. GPA and time to graduate will be much less a factor later on.

I agree with what @Trip7 says here. Please don't give up your dreams because you aren't qualified today. On that note however, I think it would be silly to want to work at one airline so badly that you wouldn't go to another and give up years of seniority because of it. The simple retirement numbers will probably result in changes in the future when they recognize that a certain set of metrics no longer brings the best pilot.

 

[Trip7]

I've heard this before. Hell, I've said this myself over and over.

But I was hired at my first airline 8 years ago, and I've been hearing it ever since, only to see no changes in hiring practices at the upper levels. It eventually becomes hallow, ya know?

Since the music stopped playing for 5 of those years and in the case of Delta, only hired 300ish in the other 3, I'd bet money you'll be where you want to be within 3 years from now

 

[Dan208B]

I know one of the people who built that database very well. It's very good at predicting if you'll "fit the Delta mold." We can argue about whether it is fair or not, but it's not really up for debate that it is good at selecting for a particular type of person.

BTW the system deducts points for being too smart too. Those pilots tend to get bored and "start acting out," according to the person I mentioned before.

They have reams of data over the past 20 years. It's a very interesting way of going about pilot selection. It's not really the way I would go if I were in charge, but it is what it is.

Exactly right. They have come up with a system that fits their needs. And it's different than American's or United's of FedEx's. But it does work for them and whether or not I like it I don't think I have any right whatsoever to say that they're wrong for doing that.

 

[jtrain609]

Since the music stopped playing for 5 of those years and in the case of Delta, only hired 300ish in the other 3, I'd bet money you'll be where you want to be within 3 years from now

I knew you were going to say that.

Because I've been saying that.

But by repeating the same thing over and over, it does a disservice to guys that keep churning in regional hell. Giving people the tools they need to move on means a lot more than a pat on the back and saying, "Don't worry, it'll get better bro!"

The tools were traditionally to get your degree and network, and now folks are being told that it's nice they did that, but it's not good enough.

 

[Trip7]

I agree with what @Trip7 says here. Please don't give up your dreams because you aren't qualified today. On that note however, I think it would be silly to want to work at one airline so badly that you wouldn't go to another and give up years of seniority because of it. The simple retirement numbers will probably result in changes in the future when they recognize that a certain set of metrics no longer brings the best pilot.

Delta has shown they are willing to drop metrics. The fail the panel you can never reinterview again has been replaced with if your testing and panel score came close to getting hired you can reinterview. Endeavor SSP has dropped the Pysch test completely.

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

I'm just repeating what I was told. Had a conversation with the PHD who created the algorithm.

Sounds like we know the same person.

 

[ppragman]

Yep. That's a really big problem with the computer age. We need our youth to eff up a few times, grow from it, and move on. These days you'll be answering questions about that Facebook pic of you holding a joint every time you interview for a job. Forever.

Disclaimer- I do not have a pic like that "out there." It was just an example.

There's a picture of me on facebook of me dressed like Fred Flintstone with some sort of beverage in my hand with Jane Jetson hanging off my arm from a Halloween party where most of my coworkers were (@Capt. Chaos - I believe you remember, or perhaps don't remember the one). I'm just waiting to explain that one. I can picture it now. In some poorly lit interrogation room I'm sitting on an uncomfortable metal chair. The interviewer sits across from me, a large mirror behind him hiding my other evaluators. I try not to sweat through my cheap suit:

"Well, son, we've reviewed your application. Your pilot credentials check out, you've been doing this job for nigh on 20 years now. You are college educated. You've led a good life, and have a clean record... we have only one question."

The interviewer casually opens a folder containing my dossier and slides a single photo across the metal table.

"What the hell were you thinking 17 years ago?" says my interrogator, as he stamps "DENIED" in bold red letters across the top of my folder.

"But...but...I was twenty-on-" I stammer before being cutoff.

"You disgust me," he spits in my face, "now get out of my sight before I call security!"

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

It's not just Delta though. It's hard as hell to get anyone an interview at my company. I've got 3 guys that I'm swinging for, and nothing yet.

 

[Trip7]

I know one of the people who built that database very well. It's very good at predicting if you'll "fit the Delta mold." We can argue about whether it is fair or not, but it's not really up for debate that it is good at selecting for a particular type of person.

BTW the system deducts points for being too smart also. Those pilots tend to get bored and "start acting out," according to the person I mentioned before.

They have reams of data over the past 20 years. It's a very interesting way of going about pilot selection. It's not really the way I would go if I were in charge, but it is what it is.

They consult with FedEx, Endeavor, among others. I'm not sure of the entire list.

Indeed, we did talk to the same person!

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

There's a picture of me on facebook from a company halloween party of me dressed like Fred Flintstone with some sort of beverage in my hand with Jane Jetson hanging off my arm from a Halloween party where most of my coworkers were (@Capt. Chaos - I believe you remember, or perhaps don't remember the one). I'm just waiting to explain that one. I can picture it now. In some poorly lit interrogation room I'm sitting on an uncomfortable metal chair. The interviewer sits across from me, a large mirror behind him hiding my other evaluators. I try not to sweat through my cheap suit:

"Well, son, we've reviewed your application. Your pilot credentials check out, you've been doing this job for nigh on 20 years now. You are college You've led a good life, and have a clean record... we have only one question."

The interviewer casually opens a folder containing my dossier and slides a single photo across the metal table.

"What the hell were you thinking 17 years ago?" says my interrogator, as he stamps "DENIED" in bold red letters across the top of my folder.

"But...but...I was twenty-on-" I stammer before being cutoff.

"You disgust me," he spits in my face, "no get out of my sight before I call security!"

Whatever happened to having fun? I will say that I witnessed two high-up managers get hammered at our new company hotel the other day. Whoa boy, did that spread like wildfire around the office the next day. I now have a 2 beer maximum policy (for myself) at company events.

 

[Nick]

Delta has shown they are willing to drop metrics. The fail the panel you can never reinterview again has been replaced with if your testing and panel score came close to getting hired you can reinterview.

There is some indication that times are changing for the better in this category, as well.

A friend of mine did not pass the tech portion but was told the panel went great -- stay tuned to come back in one year.

Only six months elapsed and he is scheduled to interview again.

Makes you wonder what the real point of the tech portion is to begin with, but I suppose that's another discussion entirely.

 

[Trip7]

There's a picture of me on facebook of me dressed like Fred Flintstone with some sort of beverage in my hand with Jane Jetson hanging off my arm from a Halloween party where most of my coworkers were (@Capt. Chaos - I believe you remember, or perhaps don't remember the one). I'm just waiting to explain that one. I can picture it now. In some poorly lit interrogation room I'm sitting on an uncomfortable metal chair. The interviewer sits across from me, a large mirror behind him hiding my other evaluators. I try not to sweat through my cheap suit:

"Well, son, we've reviewed your application. Your pilot credentials check out, you've been doing this job for nigh on 20 years now. You are college educated. You've led a good life, and have a clean record... we have only one question."

The interviewer casually opens a folder containing my dossier and slides a single photo across the metal table.

"What the hell were you thinking 17 years ago?" says my interrogator, as he stamps "DENIED" in bold red letters across the top of my folder.

"But...but...I was twenty-on-" I stammer before being cutoff.

"You disgust me," he spits in my face, "no get out of my sight before I call security!"

Talk about going overboard. This reminds me of Drake 0-100 Haha. Fyi for anyone curious Delta does not look at social media in their screening process.

 

[Boris Badenov]

I know one of the people who built that database very well. It's very good at predicting if you'll "fit the Delta mold." We can argue about whether it is fair or not, but it's not really up for debate that it is good at selecting for a particular type of person.

I'm not entirely sure whether I fit the qualification or not, but I'm 100% sure that I don't particularly want to work for people who favor trustifarians over people who had to overcome adversity to get where they are. So I guess it's sort of self-selecting, too.

 

[wheelsup]

What if you did your 4-year in 2 years, 10 months, due to high school class transfers (AP courses).

I had a 3.7 GPA, is that too low for Delta elite???

 

[Gonzo]

Which system are you speaking of? The actual interview or the interview selection process?

The interview selection process, in the old days I could get face time and explain the GPA and the time frame it took me to get my degree.

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

I'm not entirely sure whether I fit the qualification or not, but I'm 100% sure that I don't particularly want to work for people who favor trustifarians over people who had to overcome adversity to get where they are. So I guess it's sort of self-selecting, too.

Yeah. I'm pretty sure I don't fit their mold either, and that's ok.

 

[arkflyr]

Oh wow, this hits me right in the wheelhouse. I have heard of this before and I am one of those with days of misspent youth problems and 4+ years for the undergrad degree. Not that I am applying to any airlines right now, I fell ass backwards into a good 91 gig but I am considering jumping into the fray for other reasons.

It makes a lot of sense to me though, all of those I know that have been hired by Delta fit the same mold, great guys, squeaky clean and polished the same way.

 

[wheelsup]

There is some indication that times are changing for the better in this category, as well.

A friend of mine did not pass the tech portion but was told the panel went great -- stay tuned to come back in one year.

Only six months elapsed and he is scheduled to interview again.

Makes you wonder what the real point of the tech portion is to begin with, but I suppose that's another discussion entirely.

Just like all of them, can you research the gouge, memorize it, and regurgitate it correctly? If you can do that you can learn flows and profiles.

It's just part of the process. Cooperate and graduate.

 

[A300Capt]

After 37 years of flying with the majority of that at the airlines flying everything from small turboprops to heavies, I've never seen a true direct correlation between higher education credentials and flying abilities...absolute zero! Unfortunately, many HR depts are set up to weed folks out based on practices they've used for decades simply because that's the way they've always done it. Most of the criteria is based simply on where you went to school, degree obtained and GPA. That tells me about 4 yrs of your entire life but little on how well you can fly an airplane or how you interact with people (fellow workers as well as customers).

I've flown with high ranking military officers with distinguished flying careers and advanced degrees (on paper) who can't engage in a casual conversation and who I wouldn't let drive my car across the parking lot for fear of them either getting lost or wreaking it. I've flown with folks straight off the farm with crop dusting experience and no college degree yet fly an airplane like they were a bird in a former life. On paper most HR depts would choose the former over the latter and I can't blame them. In reality though I'd rather fly with the latter of the two. When all you have is a piece of paper with boxes checked or not its hard to really get a feel for someone.

I have two criteria for hiring if it were me..and it's not. Is the person a competent and safe pilot (are they teachable) and would I want to spent 3+ days on the road with this person. I don't care where you went to school, what degree you obtained or what frat you were in other than during idle chit chat over a cold beer. It means nothing to me in your ability to safely and competently fly the airplane. It's not a measuring stick for me. Ironically, some guys will hand me their verbal resumes in the first 5 mins of meeting. I'm not sure if they're trying to impress me, validate their existence or "one up" me or someone else. I've learned these are generally the folks that bare watching closely. The folks that quietly and friendly go about their business and let their flying speak for them are the ones who impress me the most. I can usually tell within the first 10 mins whether or not you're competent.

As I've said, a college or advanced degree doesn't make you a good or great pilot. Military vs civilian trained pilot doesn't make you any better or worse than your counterpart. I don't care whether you finished college in 2 yrs or 7. Life gets in the way and people finish at different rates depending on responsibilities outside of school. Unfortunately for most applicants, you have to get past the airline's HR dept's list of sometimes silly criteria and check all their boxes before you get to prove whether or not you can do the job.

Delta, much like any top tier airline, obviously has enough applicants to pick and choose whomever fits their ever changing hiring criteria. Some of those who would be best at the job fall thru the cracks and some idiots make it through...that's life. Timing, luck, skill set..who knows? In life just don't put all your eggs in one basket saying things like, or having a mindset of, "I'm only gonna fly for Delta, etc or nothing".

It's good to have goals but they have to remain flexible. The way you think at 20 will be different than when you're 30, 40 and 50+. I've tried to explain this to my college age daughter but she, being a teenager, has it all figured out and I'm the dumbest person that has ever lived. Ugh!

 

[Gonzo]

I wish I could "like" that more than once.