Delta 717 dual engine failure?

Autothrust Blue said:
I consider the thrust control system design on those aircraft to be deficient from a human-computer interface point of view, because of that accident.

"Yeah we stick 'em in climb and then magic happens."

"No! No! Bad Frenchies! Bad!"
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No, they aren't bad. It's a fine design. It's in the CLB detent and in speed mode. It's not Airbus's fault that the PF only pulled one thrust lever back to idle. That's bad in any two-engine aircraft on landing.

In this accident I'm surprised the law of primacy didn't take over. That's all engines in reverse (even if not working) and full manual brakes. Similarly, in the Air Florida accident, I'm surprised primacy didn't force one of pilots to go balls to the wall on those throttles. That could have potentially saved them. If you are low to the ground and struggling why wouldn't you slam them full forward.
 
Trip7 said:
True, but it's all about perspective. A very junior Southernjetter who has flown 24 leg 4 days on the CR2 in the middle of June for $45/hr will be jumping for joy to do that trip on the 717 for $68/hr, let alone 2nd year pay.

Once they get to a line holding position on the ER, I'm sure it will be speechless Nirvana :cool:
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LOL

Cherokee_Cruiser said:
No, they aren't bad. It's a fine design. It's in the CLB detent and in speed mode. It's not Airbus's fault that the PF only pulled one thrust lever back to idle. That's bad in any two-engine aircraft on landing.

In this accident I'm surprised the law of primacy didn't take over. That's all engines in reverse (even if not working) and full manual brakes. Similarly, in the Air Florida accident, I'm surprised primacy didn't force one of pilots to go balls to the wall on those throttles. That could have potentially saved them. If you are low to the ground and struggling why wouldn't you slam them full forward.
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There have been some accidents with lever confusion, the C-5 crash at Dover being one one of them.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
No, they aren't bad. It's a fine design. It's in the CLB detent and in speed mode. It's not Airbus's fault that the PF only pulled one thrust lever back to idle. That's bad in any two-engine aircraft on landing.
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In some aircraft, you'll push the inoperative thrust lever "up and out of the way" to avoid confusion as to which engine has failed.

There's really no universal answer.
 
Derg said:
In some aircraft, you'll push the inoperative thrust lever "up and out of the way" to avoid confusion as to which engine has failed.

There's really no universal answer.
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Hmmm. Well, in any case, if one is landing a plane and it isn't stopping I would think you'd reach all thrust levers and bring them full reverse, irrespective of the engine being on or off. Primacy. In any case, and for whatever reason(s), two heavily experienced pilots unfortunately were involved in this horrific crash (I believe the deadliest in Brazil to date). Very sad :(
 
Derg said:
That would be very awkward.

Now the movie "Showgirls" — that's a group event so you can heckle it, but I'm not about to watch "A.T.M. Six" with a bunch of dudes.
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You want awkward? How about our apartment with one-each Jopie living with us back in the day?

That makes the quoted above seem entirely tame.
 
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MikeD said:
You want awkward? How our apartment with one-each Jopie living with us back in the day?

That makes the quoted above seem entirely tame.
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I just had that completely blocked out. *wince* !
 
When you have an engine failure in the Dash, our checklist says "Power levers....operate together for the remainder of the flight."
 
Trip7 said:
True, but it's all about perspective. A very junior Southernjetter who has flown 24 leg 4 days on the CR2 in the middle of June for $45/hr will be jumping for joy to do that trip on the 717 for $68/hr, let alone 2nd year pay.
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How's this for perspective. That's the same 4 day trip I flew on the E120 in the middle of June for something like $22/hr. Just sub AEX and GTR for EWR and ORD. Not sure I could survive that crap again. Even for $195/hr in the left seat.
 
Skåning said:
Interesting!
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It still has me in disbelief that with a left seater, right seater, engineer, and probably more that no one noticed what had happened. I would really shocked that only one guy said "I'm concerned", and he only said it once. No one seemed really worried that they were about to crash.
 
Pilotdude3407 said:
It still has me in disbelief that with a left seater, right seater, engineer, and probably more that no one noticed what had happened. I would really shocked that only one guy said "I'm concerned", and he only said it once. No one seemed really worried that they were about to crash.
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Autothrust Blue said:
Gosh, there's a hell of a lot of yapping going on up front.
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Freaking Reservist part-timer crewmembers........

:)
 
Autothrust Blue said:
They had three other engines - what was the hurry to get on the ground? (without reading the mishap report, of course.)
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Hard to say. With the thought that they had three engines (even though they were only using two engines, unknowingly), and the performance based on three operating engines, they likely felt fully comfortable bringing it back and terminating the emergency. I don't know if the nature of the emergency, and any similarities to the Ramstein crash of 1990, may have been on the mind of the crew or a factor to them wanting to get it back on the ground also; though it they already shut down that motor, that would've been a non-issue anyway.
 
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I'm sure one of our resident C5 drivers has better details. but from what I recall, the cockpit crew was made up of an AC, an IP and an examiner, although nobody was actually being checked. The C5 will fly on 3 engines (barely) but certainly not two. Also, the load masters were sitting at their station in the back and had no idea that a) the plane was returning and b) they were about to crash. The plane split right about where they were sitting.

060403_dovercrash_hmed_6a0.hmedium.jpg
 
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