degrees, 4 year, 2 year , still working on it

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"who would your hire, the 4 year degree, 1200 tt 200 me or the 2000 tt, 750 me, 2 year degree guy."

Who I would hire or who you would hire isn't really the point. The point is that a degree is a practical requirement for what most would consider the best jobs in aviation. You can argue all day about whether it's right or not but that's not going to change the FACT that it is a necessity. If you're happy working for a regional or a 135 freight outfit for you're whole career, then don't get a degree. That's where I'd be if I didn't have one, instead of UPS. If you're shooting for the top, you'd better have a degree.
 
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Ok mtsu, you have struck my curiosity, I know your a college student, what is your flight experience ? I have flown with both non degree and 4 year degree pilots. Both equally sharp and with simular skills, the degree did not give one the upper hand over the other. I once had an instructor who said " give me enough bananas and I can teach a monkey to fly"

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Now, don't take any of this personally...but I would still hire the guy with the 4-year degree, for quite a few reasons.

First and foremost, I would rather hire an individual that has the most skills for the buck. Whether it's a flying position, or a non-flying position, I'd want to hire somebody that can readily move into a management position. Granted, a college degree can't insure that a person is management material, but would you bet your next performance evaluation on a guy that didn't get a degree? What if that same written evaluation is going to stick with you for the rest of your career with a company?

When I was in the Marine Corps, I had quite a few fitness reports and scheduled formal counseling sessions. I had some that were done by enlisted Marines (with no college degree), and some done by commissioned officers (with college degrees). Like night and day, really.

I have nothing against a person that doesn't have a degree. As a potential employer, I won't punish an individual that doesn't hold a degree. However, I will reward someone that was willing to take the time to devote themselves to higher education. That tells me that this is someone that knows themselves, and seeks self improvement.
 
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I would hire the person with the most skills for the buck ...

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This works in about every industry but aviation. College skills do not translate to being a good pilot.

Airlines don't want people that can write a legal document, solve quadratic equations or paint with oils. They want ROBOTS that show up for work, complete the schedule and then go home and get rested for the next shift.

I'd hire the 2000 hr guy over the 1200 hr, all things being equal.
 
Yes we all need that 4 year degree to get far in that climb to the top of our careers. Some say it's because of the person being trainable, some say it's a personality thing, others say it's because the degree guy/girl is smarter than the one who doesn't have one. Whatever! It's a way to weed out the competition. I have a 4 yr degree and I only took 3 college classes. Most of my military experience converted straight. It was all OJT. That's the way the military trains. That's how they can afford to but a 20yr old in a Blackhawk or F-16 and not kill him/herself. I agree 100% with "jbeauv" on this one but bud your going to need that degree if you want to fly for one of the majors.
 
The only airlines that require 4 yr degrees will not be hiring for quite a long time now. Delta, United, American
 
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The only airlines that require 4 yr degrees will not be hiring for quite a long time now. Delta, United, American

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Good point! So don't get 'em guys
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Stick to the regionals
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I would hire the person with the most skills for the buck ...

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This works in about every industry but aviation. College skills do not translate to being a good pilot.

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This very well may be true, but I disagree with it. Like I said before, I never want another person that has never take a writing class to write any type of evaluation for me. I've had enough of those.

JT, you're absolutely correct when you say that college skills do not translate to being a good pilot, and I don't think that anyone here would disagree with that. Flying is vocational in nature. However, being a manager is NOT vocational, and I for one, hope to do some other things in this industry, besides fly until I'm 60.
 
An education never hurt anyone. Besides, better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
 
Really, alot of people wallow in their sadness about college, complaining that they didn't get anything out of it. I think those people are idiots....

I've enjoyed my time in college, and I've really learned alot. You can take from it what you choose to. Alot of my peers ask me constantly, "Why are you taking that class? It's not on your degree audit...", or "I'm just trying to do the bare minimum to get out of here...". Well, good on you, and I'm definately not hating on anyone. We've each got to make choices for ourselves. I choose to learn as much as I can.
 
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College is not just about trainability. There is a lot of personality development that occurs as part of the college experience, and I think that is an incredibly important intangible when entering the job market in any field. I absolutely encourage anybody who is even considering aviation (or almost any other career field) to go to college and obtain a four-year degree. College education pays you back in spades over time, even if you don't realize it as you're going through (FL270)

Really, alot of people wallow in their sadness about college, complaining that they didn't get anything out of it. I think those people are idiots....

I've enjoyed my time in college, and I've really learned alot. You can take from it what you choose to. Alot of my peers ask me constantly, "Why are you taking that class? It's not on your degree audit...", or "I'm just trying to do the bare minimum to get out of here...". Well, good on you, and I'm definately not hating on anyone. We've each got to make choices for ourselves. I choose to learn as much as I can (MTSU AV8R)


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I love these 2 posts (no sarcasm!).

If you can’t stand the idea of college and exercising your mind, then just think of a degree as an important part of your eligibility profile for a good flying job (that is what it is becoming or has become). Just make the effort to try and get the “piece of paper” so you can “fill the square” on an application.

For those looking for more, I found college to be a great experience that has enriched my mind and my personality. It is difficult to describe unless you have actually been through the process, but college study has changed the way I think, the way I critically evaluate people and situations, and my ability to function effectively in the world and in my career.

A fair chunk of my coursework has been in the liberal arts and psychology. Study in these two areas has made an enormous difference in how I confront daily situations, but usually in very subtle ways. I would love to go back and get a Master’s degree.

Sure, every college degree program will include some “klunker” classes that don’t challenge the students too much. But for the most part, I think that challenging course work will pay you back in intangible benefits. Like some others have said, college is what you make it – we have all known people who have floated through 4 years of school by taking classes that are marginally beneficial or challenging, and they emerge with a degree but no mental nourishment. If you tackle entire program with a true sense of curiosity and interest, you will benefit exponentially from your college experience. If you approach the program like a distasteful and necessary evil (a visit to the dentist’s office, if you will) then you will probably not benefit very much and you will go around professing that college was a big waste of time and money except for the “piece of paper.”

OK, off the soapbox.

BTW: I always get a kick out of people who say you should get a degree to “fall back on.” A degree in anything doesn’t guarantee a job by a long shot (well, except for a few select careers). That would be like an IT guy saying, “I think I’ll get a commercial pilot’s license so I can fall back on an aviation career if I lose my IT job.” Wishful thinking, but absurd in the real world.
 
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BTW: I always get a kick out of people who say you should get a degree to “fall back on.” A degree in anything doesn’t guarantee a job by a long shot (well, except for a few select careers). That would be like an IT guy saying, “I think I’ll get a commercial pilot’s license so I can fall back on an aviation career if I lose my IT job.” Wishful thinking, but absurd in the real world.

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Oh, so true!
 
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But does giving a 500 hour advantage to the degree replace the experience ? To me 500 hours is a lot of flight time. If you go to school full time how many hours a day are spent in the classroom? Then how many hours are spent on the same subject outside the classroom ? OJT and hard knocks can be just as meaningful as lessons learned in a classroom, dont you agree?

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500 hours ia about 7 months of line experience which isn't a whole heck of a lot in the world of passenger aviation.

You can't use logic when it comes to who an airline hires because it'll drive you nuts and you'll absolutely frustrate yourself.

Hiring is fiercely competitive and probably always will be.

Let's use another experience qualifier as an example.

Fedex requires 1000 PIC turbine time to apply for employment.

At this point, I've got a four year degree, 8 years of part-121 experience, about 1200 hours of Beech 1900 experience, 1400 hours of 737-200 time, 1000 of 727 FE experience and 2600 hours of MD 88 time, but my application would not be considered by FedEx because I only have about 200 hours of turbine PIC.

Get the degree. Stop wasting time attempting to justify not doing it and just get it done.
 
I guess this has gotten off the beaten path, I originally posted this message to see if there were any pilots flying for an airline with less that a 4 year degree, and I guess I turned it into a who would you hire contest.I am about to complete my Associates degree, however I am a military trained Aviator, and I did not need a 4 year degree to get there.My Army training was nearly a year long and info was fed to you with a fire hose ( example, instrument ticket was earned in about 8 weeks and waited for no one) and at the same time you remained an Officer candidate the whole time.I am not knocking college, but you can not tell me that because someone chose to go to school that they should recieve a 500 hour advantage over some one who did not but has the experience.
 
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I am not knocking college, but you can not tell me that because someone chose to go to school that they should recieve a 500 hour advantage over some one who did not but has the experience.

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I'd give them more than that....but that's not me! I would reward that person that went to college ALOT....and as long as there were applicants with four-year degrees, I'd keep those applications at the top of this list.

I have not seen such a world of experience that is equal to what someone gains after completing a degree. Nobody is saying that 4 years of college makes someone a better pilot...at all!!!
 
I think what you're misunderstanding is the fact that this is a competitive profession, almost cutthroat in some regards.

Airlines want to hire the creme de la creme and everyone and his uncle has a commercial license and a few thousand hours.

I think the best thing to do would be to take a peek at the "Jobs Available" forum topic, browse and see just how many jobs require four year degrees.

Is a four year degree required to be a good pilot? Not at all.

Without a degree, you more or less carve out a large percentage of available jobs because you don't meet the minimum requirements. If it was between FlyChicaga and Chuck Yeager (pre 60) competing for a job that requires a four year degree. Chicaga's getting a new uniform and Chuck's going to be sitting at home joining the ranks of bitter pilots full of angst.
 
I would take an applicant with a bachelors and 25% less time over someone with just an associates. With no college at all the applicant would need to have twice the experience as a four year degree holding applicant.

But I don't make up the rules and the fact of the matter is that folks with college degrees have a lot more than a 25% hour advantage over non-bachelor holding applicants for an airline job. At the majors, there's about a 99.5% chance that your resume will be discarded as soon as they realize you don't have a 4 year degree. This is what Doug, De727ups, A300capt, and other professional mainline pilots have been telling us on this site for the past 3-4 years.

Is it fair? I don't know. It doesn't matter. That's the way it is and if you want to be competitive just get a 4 year degree. The work you did on your associates will count towards it...
 
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Is it fair? I don't know. It doesn't matter. That's the way it is and if you want to be competitive just get a 4 year degree. The work you did on your associates will count towards it...

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I can't say it any better myself!

THAT'S what I'm trying to say.
 
Bravo, all points well taken, I thank everyone who posted a reply, should we send this horse to the taxidermist now?
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If you have your associates or will shortly and you want to start out by going to the regionals then do that. Complete some course online thru an accredited college that will allow you to complete the bachelors. You can kill two birds with one stone on this one. As soon as your ready, then start on the 4 year online or correspondence. If you get hired by a regional before your done, then thats fine and you can finish up while your working. Make sense?
 
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At the majors, there's about a 99.5% chance that your resume will be discarded as soon as they realize you don't have a 4 year degree. This is what Doug, De727ups, A300capt, and other professional mainline pilots have been telling us on this site for the past 3-4 years.

[/ QUOTE ]I think FalconCapt, C650CPT, and any other of my fellow corporate aviators on here would join me in telling you that corporate aviation has a similar track record, particularly for the "best" (Fortune 100, etc.) corporate pilot positions.
 
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