Declare an Emergency! Please...

BobDDuck said:
I did have an FO flip out that we declared after we lost 1 of our 3 hydraulic systems (the one that provides 1/2 of the brakes) because he didn't want to have to do all that paperwork when we landed and it was going to make us late for the overnight. Ummm... sure.
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Seriously....I have YET to see this mysterious "mountain of paperwork" that people are so frightened of when it comes to emergency declarations. I certainly never carried the "mountain of paperwork" folder in my ARFF truck back in the day to give to the pilot when everything was said and done, and I never saw airport ops people with that mysterious folder either.
 
I don't understand the debate here...

I will say that at SkyWest, if you handle an emergency, you will get a line check. Instead of a letter of appreciation, you get a line check. I am so glad I don't work for them any longer.
 
boondr said:
The IAD arrivals rarely talk to us unless they come in from the ENO/SIE direction or NY Center shortcuts them late at night from the NE over the EMI area. We talk to a lot of the IAD departures to the North and NW above 10. The Dulles area(SHD) are the ones you guys complain about. ;) If you are talking to a controller that works "outside the box" it is probably us. :)
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OT...

Do you guys chat with the guys going to DTW via depart 30 D-> BUFFR J518 IHD J518 DJB GEMNI2?
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
Can emergencies be canceled?
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Yes.
I declared over Greenland once, made a 180 and descended. We worked the issue (an issued that I caused in the first place). I called "Center" and canceled the emergency. Turned 180, turned to altitude, and back on course.

No problems, no further discussion on the radio, and no paperwork............
 
Hacker15e said:
Yup...and ATC should default to "standing by" instead of wasting both of our time by asking.
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You're welcome to tell them you're declaring an emergency and to stand by for more details. Nice to know that you and your crew are so self-sufficient that you don't need anyone else.

But I'm definitely not super-pilot and based on my emergency experience, ATC was the my single-pilot IFR crew resource and was incredibly helpful and instrumental in the fact that I'm around to tell the story.

You're welcome to it, but, whether in the air or on the ground, a call for help should not default to silence on the other side, especially when Stand By would take you all of a quarter second to say.
 
Standby always works, and as I mentioned before I hear more and more ATC preface their query with "when able, state souls/fule/nature". Haven't had too much problem with it in my time.
 
BobDDuck said:
I did have an FO flip out that we declared after we lost 1 of our 3 hydraulic systems (the one that provides 1/2 of the brakes) because he didn't want to have to do all that paperwork when we landed and it was going to make us late for the overnight. Ummm... sure.
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You're way too nice, BobD!

Always a good time for a "count the stripes" refresher! :)
 
Bumblebee said:
I don't understand the debate here...

I will say that at SkyWest, if you handle an emergency, you will get a line check. Instead of a letter of appreciation, you get a line check. I am so glad I don't work for them any longer.
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Holy cow. Off the bat, eh?
 
BobDDuck said:
I did have an FO flip out that we declared after we lost 1 of our 3 hydraulic systems (the one that provides 1/2 of the brakes) because he didn't want to have to do all that paperwork when we landed and it was going to make us late for the overnight. Ummm... sure.
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Wow...

I gotta say as an F/O other than a couple ASAP forms I haven't really had to do any paperwork. Different company though.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
You're welcome to tell them you're declaring an emergency and to stand by for more details. Nice to know that you and your crew are so self-sufficient that you don't need anyone else.

But I'm definitely not super-pilot and based on my emergency experience, ATC was the my single-pilot IFR crew resource and was incredibly helpful and instrumental in the fact that I'm around to tell the story.

You're welcome to it, but, whether in the air or on the ground, a call for help should not default to silence on the other side, especially when Stand By would take you all of a quarter second to say.
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Yes, hopefully someday I'll learn what it's like to handle an emergency single pilot.

Where did I say that a "call for help" should be met with "silence on the other side"? All I meant was that a call of "emergency" from an aircraft should carry the understanding that ATC is there to help, and that implication the pilot will pass on the information ATC wants when they get a chance. No need to waste the pilot's brain bytes by calling him, distracting him from handling the emergency, and forcing him to tell you to 'stand by'.

FWIW, my post was mostly just in jest anyway.
 
I've declared twice (engine failure in a single - daytime - and engine failure at night in a twin). I've also had ATC roll the equipment on their own on two other occasions when I have just advised that I was doing a precautionary landing due to a hi temp gauge indication etc. Each time the emergency crew chief took my name & other info and that was it. Only on the night engine failure in the twin did the FAA show any interest and in that instance they just called the shop the next day to ask them if they knew why my engine failed. They never even asked to talk to me. No paperwork in any instance. I understand it may be different with a 121 or 135 op.
 
Bumblebee said:
I don't understand the debate here...

I will say that at SkyWest, if you handle an emergency, you will get a line check. Instead of a letter of appreciation, you get a line check. I am so glad I don't work for them any longer.
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Maybe that was just you...
 
pilotbry said:
. I understand it may be different with a 121 or 135 op.
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Don't know about 135, but in the 121 world, other than an ASAP, if I don't have 4 stripes, I ain't fillin' out no stinkin' paperwork. I'll be at the pool enjoying a frosty adult beverage, thank you very much!
 
Cptnchia said:
Don't know about 135, but in the 121 world, other than an ASAP, if I don't have 4 stripes, I ain't fillin' out no stinkin' paperwork. I'll be at the pool enjoying a frosty adult beverage, thank you very much!
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That makes me think about that (presumably) AirTran pilot's blog where he talked about the best part about being an f/o. When something crazy happens like some maintenance that requires extensive paperwork. You can settle into a chair in the back of the plane for some not giving a crap while the captain sorts it out.

If I'm flying with a good captain who values my opinion I'll gladly stay up and do what I can to help out. But if its a dingleberry...I'll be in the back taking a nap.
 
BobDDuck said:
I did have an FO flip out that we declared after we lost 1 of our 3 hydraulic systems (the one that provides 1/2 of the brakes) because he didn't want to have to do all that paperwork when we landed and it was going to make us late for the overnight. Ummm... sure.
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Did you lose 2 or 3?

I definitely would not argue against declaring for either one. That being said, I had a captain once want to declare for something that was somewhat common and, in my mind, pretty minor (redundancy was lost, but the airplane would fly, navigate, stop, and land just fine unless something else happened). I was pretty vehement that I didn't want to declare and then fly an hour further and land in icing conditions (hint: issue related to ice protection) and have to answer the question "why did you declare and then continue into a worse situation?". I was fine with diverting to good weather (although the QRH said nothing about landing at the nearest suitable airport) or continuing without declaring, but to declare and then go to the destination to me seemed like an abuse of the emergency authority, as many more suitable airports were close by.

I wasn't afraid of having to fill out paperwork, but I would have had no explanation for why we continued into icing conditions in an "emergency" related to ice protection when VFR conditions existed nearby.
 
I've declared a couple of times. One last week. IAH-MKE. Unforecasted fog moved in 6 hours early. Went missed, did not have enough gas to try another attempt and go missed and make it to another field. Asked for ORD diversion, after 2 vectors and a climb to 8000', fuel became a serious issue so we declared a fuel emergency and told them were going direct outer marker for 14L. Whats the big deal?

Another time we had to divert to get more gas because SLC wx dropped unexpectedly. On the diversion departing SNA, we planned a fuel stop in CDC, on downwind our flaps failed on the 700 which is rare. Immediately climbed out, got on with ATC and declared the emergency and told them we were going direct KLAS. Our company actually took the second event in a safety letter to all the pilots on how to handle a situation and make a PIC decision. I've seen some guys in the sim going for their ATP's, theres always one or two that don't belong in the left seat. They don't have the commandability. I think a lot of my mentality of not being afraid to make a command decision comes from having a airline captain father for 30 years. Don't go declaring if its not warranted though.
 
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