Dear Airlines and Unionized Pilots

[future777captain]

Forward this to all of your managers and let them have a review of themselves.
Dear Airline Managers:
You are crying and crying left right and center that there are not enough pilots to carry on your operations. American Airlines recently put 250 of their own managers, also qualified pilots, into cockpits to alleviate their shortage.
However, you have only yourselves to blame. Go to any FBO around Canada or the US. You will, on average, see 20 students at any one ground school, all wanting to be airline pilots. Yet, out of that 20, only 2, that's right, 2, will ever finish their commercial license, because they simply can not keep up with the costs, especially with rising fuel fees. There is also an airport around here (Canada) that we use for cross country touch and goes. However, the recently introduced small plane landing fees that are passed on to the students.
Europe and Asian carriers are taking the initiative and training pilots from scratch and giving them life-long employment. What are you doing?
That's right. With all the money you don't use for training you can buy a new house.
If you need pilots, step up to the plate and help us out. These are expensive days to be studying aviation.

Dear unionized airline pilots,

For guys who only work 85 hours a month and get all sorts of benefits and salary, you sure do whine a lot. What is it that you want? I think a lot of you are bitter because you are unsatisfied with where you work. But, look again, at the guys who work the starbucks at the airport, who fuel up the plane, the ticket counter agents. Is your job so bad now?
You get paid nice salaries to fly some of the finest aircraft ever produced. Isn't that why you got into flying in the first place?
But a lot of you older guys have done nothing else but fly since you were 15, so you have lost your perspective. Many younger pilots, let's say 30 and up, are actually doing piloting as a second career, so they have a tendency to be more grateful for their opportunities to fly for a major airline.

I will be a pilot one day. If I can get even as much as $30,000 a year to captain a cutting edge aircraft, I will be grateful as anything for the opportunity to do what I have always wanted to do.

 

[ljg]

Dear unionized airline pilots,

For guys who only work 85 hours a month and get all sorts of benefits and salary, you sure do whine a lot. What is it that you want? I think a lot of you are bitter because you are unsatisfied with where you work. But, look again, at the guys who work the starbucks at the airport, who fuel up the plane, the ticket counter agents. Is your job so bad now? If I can get even as much as $30,000 a year to captain a cutting edge aircraft, I will be grateful as anything for the opportunity to do what I have always wanted to do.

Thank you for sharing your opinion. Please talk to your CFI and other experienced pilots in your local area to gain a more realistic grasp of life as a professional pilot.

 

[surreal1221]

Oh boy. . .

:banghead:

If this trend continues I might find myself back in the military (only in a flying capacity) in the next 5 years.

 

[KC Jake]

I will be a pilot one day. If I can get even as much as $30,000 a year to captain a cutting edge aircraft, I will be grateful as anything for the opportunity to do what I have always wanted to do.

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[TexasFlyer]

I will be a pilot one day. If I can get even as much as $30,000 a year to captain a cutting edge aircraft, I will be grateful as anything for the opportunity to do what I have always wanted to do.

This is the most depressing thing I ever heard anyone say recently. I think I am going to go to bed now since it's late. I'm just worried this is going to cause me nightmares!

 

[surreal1221]

Hate the fact that I've opened this thread again, but this goes to show that certain High school kids just should not be allowed anywhere near an airplane.

Here's to hope this one will turn around over his growing up years.

 

[Chris_Ford]

Why don't you guys try making sentient responses as to WHY what he's saying is bad. Just saying it's bad isn't going to teach anyone. Bonus points if you can work three types of breakfast food in your answer.

 

[screennamie]

I will be a pilot one day. If I can get even as much as $30,000 a year to captain a cutting edge aircraft, I will be grateful as anything for the opportunity to do what I have always wanted to do.

WTF. 30k for state of the art equipment. Thats like saying I'll play prof. baseball or basket ball for 20k a year because the athletes are spoiled. This thread reminds me of that South Park episode "they took our jobs" just because of the I can do that for less mentality.

I can live on 10k or 11k a year but I have no life and all the different flavors of raman are starting to taste the same. There's a reason you pay so much for the training and the fact that it's challenging. And guess what?! times change gas will never cost the same ever! It's only going to go up in price.

And why not land at that FBO? So what it has a fee, they may be hiring instructors in the future and you just missed an opportunity. Training, building time, learning, as I've found out is paying your dues cash and time wise.

I'm not saying you have to do any of that. You can shoot for minimum requirements, touch n go at all the free fields and never top off a tank all through out your career. But what do you expect in return. You'll be flying a state of the art jet px or cargo for 30k and probably complain you're getting rooked.

But I could go on forever so I wont, I need to sleep.

 

[Chris_Ford]

Dear unionized airline pilots,

For guys who only work 85 hours a month and get all sorts of benefits and salary, you sure do whine a lot. What is it that you want?

Well first off, why is it just unionized airline pilots? I've heard plenty of Colgan people whine, for example. Now, secondly, they only "work" 85 hours a month is a huge misconception. They're only paid for 85 hours a month, and you know what that is based off of? It's from when the brake is released before pushback, until when the engines are off and the door is opened on landing. Doug once made a pretty decent point... Whenever you see an airline pilot, they're not getting paid. The preflight? That's free. Eating in Sbarro? He's not getting paid. Sitting in the cockpit while you board? No pay. Believe me, that's a whole lot of unpaid time.

Now, let's also factor in time away from home, missed birthdays, missed holidays, never having the same day off as your wife (because you can only hold tues-wed off), the time zone changes, the reduced rest overnights, and the general fact that the public (you) STILL think we're overpaid playboys with overnights in Tokyo one month and Paris the next.

I think a lot of you are bitter because you are unsatisfied with where you work.

Nope, a lot are "bitter" because they had things taken away from them. Whatever "benefits" you say we have aren't any better than what you get at a non-aviation company. I get medical and dental. I still have to pay for it. Besides that? I get non-revenue benefits so I can fly standby on an airline that sells every seat out of the city I live in. The benefit is completely unusable.

But, look again, at the guys who work the starbucks at the airport, who fuel up the plane, the ticket counter agents. Is your job so bad now?

How long did the Starbucks guy work at Joe's Coffee Shop taking subpar wages and shuffling waffles, french toast and eggs around for ungrateful customers before he got to work at Starbucks? How much did his Starbucks education cost?

You get paid nice salaries to fly some of the finest aircraft ever produced.

My 2007 income was $20,000 on the dot. Is that a nice salary? I have tens of thousands of dollars of student loans to pay.

Isn't that why you got into flying in the first place?

Well I'm not getting it so your question is irrelevant.

But a lot of you older guys have done nothing else but fly since you were 15, so you have lost your perspective. Many younger pilots, let's say 30 and up, are actually doing piloting as a second career, so they have a tendency to be more grateful for their opportunities to fly for a major airline.

Complete conjecture and basically just flat out made up.

I will be a pilot one day. If I can get even as much as $30,000 a year to captain a cutting edge aircraft, I will be grateful as anything for the opportunity to do what I have always wanted to do.

And when you realize that your expenses equal $40,000 a year, what happens then? The lifetsyle of "airline pilot" has a lot of incidental cost that makes anything less than $40,000 essentially unlivable. Factor in the responsibility for dozens if not hundreds if not thousands of lives a day and it just flat out ain't worth it.

Look, the downside of the job isn't the flying part. It's all the BS when you're NOT flying that you have to deal with. This job isn't what you've seen on TV or what your parents tell you. It's a lot different. You need to look into this career objectively, and I think if you do, you'll realize that this isn't just some hunky-dory easy-peasy job.

 

[Rayflyoz]

I will be a pilot one day. If I can get even as much as $30,000 a year to captain a cutting edge aircraft, I will be grateful as anything for the opportunity to do what I have always wanted to do.

That is exactly the attitude that hurts us all!!!! The "will fly for free" theory is why our pay is constantly lowered. Hopefully you will be a professional pilot one day and I welcome you. However, please oh please change that attitude. We are all professionals and should be paid accordingly.

 

[Malko]

.........


My 2007 income was $20,000 on the dot. Is that a nice salary? I have tens of thousands of dollars of student loans to pay.

......

Come on now Chris..... Didn't that check from Meredith cover all that?

 

[germb747]

>>You are crying and crying left right and center that there are not enough pilots to carry on >>your operations. American Airlines recently put 250 of their own managers, also qualified >>pilots, into cockpits to alleviate their shortage.
>>However, you have only yourselves to blame. Go to any FBO around Canada or the US. You >>will, on average, see 20 students at any one ground school, all wanting to be airline pilots. >>Yet, out of that 20, only 2, that's right, 2, will ever finish their commercial license, because >>they simply can not keep up with the costs, especially with rising fuel fees. There is also an >>airport around here (Canada) that we use for cross country touch and goes. However, the >>recently introduced small plane landing fees that are passed on to the students.

Only have yourselves to blame? I'm not following your logic. Why is American Airlines management to blame for landing fees in Canada and the rising cost of fuel/training costs? Besides, doesn't AA still have 2000+ pilots on furlough? Hardly a shortage of pilots.


>>Europe and Asian carriers are taking the initiative and training pilots from scratch and giving >>them life-long employment. What are you doing?

Why should airlines do that when there are so many of you already qualified pilots willing to hop into the cockpit for < $30,000K / year? There is never a shortage of people like that; the airlines have no incentive to "help us out". Don't forget, airlines are businesses and are always focused on the bottom dollar, and frankly, they couldn't care less about me or you.

>>For guys who only work 85 hours a month and get all sorts of benefits and salary, you sure >>do whine a lot. What is it that you want? I think a lot of you are bitter because you are >>unsatisfied with where you work.

Let's say Joe Blow works in an office from 9:00am-5:00pm M-F, and let's just say it takes them one hour to get to work in the morning and an hour to get home at night. Do the math, Joe spent 220 hours away from home last month for the purpose of work. As a professional pilot, last month I spent 408 hours away from home at work at my civilian job, and another 112 hours performing military duty, for a grand total of 520 hours (or 300 hours more at work than Joe Blow). Yes, I'm counting time sleeping in the hotel, but it's time I can't be at home so it's legit--believe it or not, "crew rest" is duty for which none of us are compensated (it's our responsibility to be well rested and show up ready to fly, whether at 2:00pm or 2:00am). Am I whining? No, I chose this lifestyle, but since we're comparing apples to oranges with this whole "85 hours a month" of work, why not see things in perspective? I am, in fact, thankful for the opportunities I've had that others only dream of. Alot of pilots are bitter and do complain alot; perhaps they should re-evaluate whether or not this is what they really want to spend the rest of their working lives doing.

>>You get paid nice salaries to fly some of the finest aircraft ever produced. Isn't that why you >>got into flying in the first place?

I get paid a livable salary to fly old clunkers, some of which are 10 years older than I am. I got into flying because I simply love aviation, not for the glamour, prestige, or money. I'm a cargo pilot, and the first thing I do when I commute home after a trip is take off my uniform--I don't want to be identified as a flight crewmember. Chances are, the last time I had a shower and a shave I was in Dubai and probably don't smell too good. Besides it's been 24+ hours since I've slept in a real bed and I'm probably not in the best of mood either. Hopefully, if you select this career field, you're not getting into it for the wrong reasons. Please don't assume all pilots are flying brand-spanking-new 777s making six figures, but that just isn't the case. Your perspective will change if you really do get into this business.

 

[crjsomeday]

Talk to a junior regional pilot to learn more, I really think that might change your perspective here. In that position the guy at Starbucks or working the ramp makes more money than a new regional FO. A very small percentage of pilots are actually flying state of the art equipment. You may percieve these people in the profession as whiners but you would probably complain too if you had been through the wage cuts, changes in work rules, and at this point a very uncertain future. Go back and read articles post 9/11 and you will see that many pilots have taken over 60% pay cuts and now have to work more.
Seek out as many professional pilots as you can and learn from their experiences and perspective. Most are more than willing to tell interested people about what they do. If you are young and pursuing an aviation career, best of luck to you.

 

[Qgar]

Hate the fact that I've opened this thread again, but this goes to show that certain High school kids just should not be allowed anywhere near an airplane.

Here's to hope this one will turn around over his growing up years.

Hate to break it to you, but if you read his previous posts, he's a 29 year old career changer, who was in the Canadian Army. anic:

 

[crjsomeday]

Okay then, more reasearch is highly recommended.

 

[JumpWake]

I will be a pilot one day. If I can get even as much as $30,000 a year to captain a cutting edge aircraft, I will be grateful as anything for the opportunity to do what I have always wanted to do.

:banghead:That mindset right there is what's pulling this industry down. PLEASE change your mind on that and educate yourself before making statements like this, and pretty much your entire post, in the future.

 

[OldTownPilot]

If you want to make 30 grand near "cutting edge" POS RJs go sling bags. I made 10k a summer (4 months) working on the ramp. Yes, I was paid more to hump bags than the FO up front. Sad, but thats the truth.

You should always demand more, so that the guys (and girls) that you work with can demand more. After graduation, with my engineering degree, I'll laugh at someone that offers less than 50k, even though it might be a 'dream job'. Sorry to break it to ya, but coolness doesn't pay bills, cash does.

 

[higney85]

Forward this to all of your managers and let them have a review of themselves.
Dear Airline Managers:
You are crying and crying left right and center that there are not enough pilots to carry on your operations. American Airlines recently put 250 of their own managers, also qualified pilots, into cockpits to alleviate their shortage.
However, you have only yourselves to blame. Go to any FBO around Canada or the US. You will, on average, see 20 students at any one ground school, all wanting to be airline pilots. Yet, out of that 20, only 2, that's right, 2, will ever finish their commercial license, because they simply can not keep up with the costs, especially with rising fuel fees. There is also an airport around here (Canada) that we use for cross country touch and goes. However, the recently introduced small plane landing fees that are passed on to the students.
Europe and Asian carriers are taking the initiative and training pilots from scratch and giving them life-long employment. What are you doing?
That's right. With all the money you don't use for training you can buy a new house.
If you need pilots, step up to the plate and help us out. These are expensive days to be studying aviation.

Dear unionized airline pilots,

For guys who only work 85 hours a month and get all sorts of benefits and salary, you sure do whine a lot. What is it that you want? I think a lot of you are bitter because you are unsatisfied with where you work. But, look again, at the guys who work the starbucks at the airport, who fuel up the plane, the ticket counter agents. Is your job so bad now?
You get paid nice salaries to fly some of the finest aircraft ever produced. Isn't that why you got into flying in the first place?
But a lot of you older guys have done nothing else but fly since you were 15, so you have lost your perspective. Many younger pilots, let's say 30 and up, are actually doing piloting as a second career, so they have a tendency to be more grateful for their opportunities to fly for a major airline.

I will be a pilot one day. If I can get even as much as $30,000 a year to captain a cutting edge aircraft, I will be grateful as anything for the opportunity to do what I have always wanted to do.

I wish you the best, but good luck just making it through your probationary year with that attitude. Union groups stick together for a common goal, not individual dreams. Your notion that by giving in to mgmt makes it "all better" for both sides shows your lack of touch in this industry. Airline CEO's are about the only employees that can run a profitable airline into the ground, leave with a multi-million dollar severance and then have a job waiting on them. I will simply give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not in touch but hope you can do some research (JC is a good place) and learn about the "true" 85hours. Many days I work 14 hours long (duty) and fly 5 legs with a total of about 8 hours of flying- credit 8 hours. That is 8/85. For argument sake that is 10% of my month. 8 hours flying=14 hours duty. You could assume I work 140 hours/month and get paid 85.... 140 hours of duty is still less than the typical 9-5 with 8 hour days but when you work 9-5 you also end up home in your own bed with your own family each night. Not so much in this business. In my "ideal" example that is only 10 days working- that would give you 20-21 days OFF! This airline world is not ideal for most so in reality you work 15-16 long days and end up with 85 hours of pay. I only assumed you were "productively scheduled".


Do some research that re-evaluate your sentiments. Also, take a look at what ALPA really is. If you want to learn what a pilot union and the airlines are really like and the history I suggest you read "Flying the Line" there is a Volume 1 and 2. Great reads for all airline pilots whether working for an airline or training towards the first gig.

 

[Fins Up]

FLAMEBAIT ALERT!!!!

Either this whole thread was bogus from the start, or he/she is just a youngster who doesn't really know much about how the business works or how far $30,000/year will take you.

There are a lot of great replies in this thread. I hope "future777captain" takes them to heart.

If this is indeed flamebait, future777...! If not, then the fella just needs to learn a little more about the real world.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I will be a pilot one day.

I certainly hope not.

If I can get even as much as $30,000 a year to captain a cutting edge aircraft, I will be grateful as anything for the opportunity to do what I have always wanted to do.

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: