DAL Widebody RFP....

Cav said:
Take a large foreign airline with ONE major hub in say CDG, FRA, or AMS with a worldwide route structure and all of a sudden a significant number of very large ultra long haul widebodies makes a lot of sense.
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Exactly, funny you mention those hubs, because the airlines that hub out of there as there (AF, KL, and well, LH doesnt count in this example) operate the 77W in the high density flavour. AC also uses the high density layout on their 77Ws, just out of YYZ and YVR.

Looks to me like DLs route structure with the medium capacity-long range equipment is a departure to the point to point from the hub and spoke concept.

Seggy said:
Delta is quite late to the 787 party.
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The 787 is late to its own party.
 
Cav said:
Take a large foreign airline with ONE major hub in say AUH, BAH, or DOH with a worldwide route structure and all of a sudden a significant number of very large ultra long haul widebodies makes a lot of sense.
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FIFY
 
Roger Roger said:
From a very much outside perspective, it seems like Boeing has kind of lost their way lately.
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Meh, they seem to be doing fine.........

"Ending October
We’ve just released the orders and deliveries totals through the end of October. While Boeing still leads in all categories, we expect to see a race to the finish line.

NET ORDERS
Boeing: 1,046
Airbus: 794

GROSS ORDERS
Boeing: 1,152
Airbus: 1,080

DELIVERIES
Boeing: 590
Airbus: 493

The delivery total for Boeing includes 90 787s, and we remain on track to meet our year-end targets.

One of the new orders we added in the past week was from Monarch Airlines. They finalized an order for 30 737 MAX 8s. It marks the beginning of the British carrier’s transition to an all-Boeing single-aisle fleet, something we are incredibly honored by and proud of. Our total MAX orders now stand at 2,326.

Air Canada also announced their previously unidentified order for two more 777-300ERs. We’re excited to see their 777 fleet continue to grow."
 
As long as Boeing sticks to the 737 and the occasional engine upgrade, they will be fine. The competition in that market is less fierce now that Bombardier seems to be effing up on the C-Series.
 
SeanD said:
As long as Boeing sticks to the 737 and the occasional engine upgrade, they will be fine. The competition in that market is less fierce now that Bombardier seems to be effing up on the C-Series.
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That was a Pratt problem not the aircraft. I still keep in touch with contacts at Bombardier. Pratt and Whitney fixed the issue, but it put the flight test program several months behind schedule.
 
Seggy said:
Anyone know what General Lee is going to bid?

-Bye Bye
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Well, the nice thing about working for an airline that has a variety of fleet types, which you seem to never understand, is that there's this little thing called VARIETY. Although I enjoy finishing off my dinner and a movie with an ice cream sundae on the way to Paris, Rome, and Rio, it's nice to know I can bid to the left seat of a 737 if I want to. It's nice to have options, something you can only dream of. But who cares if I'm in the right seat flying back from Venice, or in the left seat flying to a nice long layover in San Francisco -- I've also got profit sharing. How much of that do YOU get? Really, nothing but a chance to dump the lav? Good luck, Seggy.

Bye Bye---General Lee
 
When I make my every other month log in to FI, I'm astounded at what a mess that place is.

Ironically, that website is a major reason I'm at South'nJetzz today!
 
Something missing in these discussions is opportunity lost. Something that the managers likely missed as well. What exactly is the opportunity lost? It is under belly freight capacity that an airline gets when they have B777s. That translates to additional revenue.

A big part of Emirates consistent profitability is their freight operation. NWA had that at one time with dedicated freighters in the Pacific. They earned a lot of revenue for that airline. Why they and their routes were given up is a good question. Why U.S. majors don't go after more cargo revenue is also a mystery. When they order small airplanes like the A330 they end up handicapping themselves when it comes to generating that kind of revenue.



Typhoonpilot.
 
typhoonpilot said:
Something missing in these discussions is opportunity lost. Something that the managers likely missed as well. What exactly is the opportunity lost? It is under belly freight capacity that an airline gets when they have B777s. That translates to additional revenue.

A big part of Emirates consistent profitability is their freight operation. NWA had that at one time with dedicated freighters in the Pacific. They earned a lot of revenue for that airline. Why they and their routes were given up is a good question. Why U.S. majors don't go after more cargo revenue is also a mystery. When they order small airplanes like the A330 they end up handicapping themselves when it comes to generating that kind of revenue.



Typhoonpilot.
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DL has an intense focus on belly cargo. The 330 has fantastic cargo capability, while the 777 is too much airplane for most routes we do, which is why they continue to have problems deploying them.
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
DL has an intense focus on belly cargo. The 330 has fantastic cargo capability, while the 777 is too much airplane for most routes we do, which is why they continue to have problems deploying them.
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Yes, but when you reference the B777 at DAL how much of that takes into account the -200LR?

As much as I like that airplane it really is only meant for unique ultra long haul routes. It is difficult to make money with it, to be honest. The -300ER is completely different in that regard.

A lot of airlines have gone with the -300ER in the last decade. It has replaced a lot of 747-400s and other equipment on international routes.

Not saying that DAL doesn't know what it is doing because they have been quite successful of late. Just that I am not convinced of their long term strategy with small airplanes. Airport and airspace capacity is becoming more and more an issue. When you only get x number of slots into a major international gateway and are serving that with sub 300 seat airplanes then I think there is the potential to leave a lot of money on the table.


TP
 
typhoonpilot said:
Yes, but when you reference the B777 at DAL how much of that takes into account the -200LR?

As much as I like that airplane it really is only meant for unique ultra long haul routes. It is difficult to make money with it, to be honest. The -300ER is completely different in that regard.

A lot of airlines have gone with the -300ER in the last decade. It has replaced a lot of 747-400s and other equipment on international routes.

Not saying that DAL doesn't know what it is doing because they have been quite successful of late. Just that I am not convinced of their long term strategy with small airplanes. Airport and airspace capacity is becoming more and more an issue. When you only get x number of slots into a major international gateway and are serving that with sub 300 seat airplanes then I think there is the potential to leave a lot of money on the table.


TP
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US Airlines have no need for 747/777-300ER type aircraft across the Atlantic because they serve European cities from multiple hubs across the United States. If Delta or any US legacy only had one hub like Emirates the 777X/777-300ER/A380 would make sense.
 
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