Corporate Pilot
Well-Known Member
On the Citation Ultra we pay $500 for Captain and $350 for copilot a day. On the Cessna 340 we pay $400 a day.
Daily Rate - Contract Pilot
- Thread starter dustoff17
- Start date
Corporate Pilot
Well-Known Member
I agree. I have the single pilot exemption in the Cessna 500 series and our insurance covers me to fly it SP. To meet our insurance the co-pilot, for the most part, must have had training in a simulator in the last year. Since I have the exemption I have tried to get this changed but for the most part they will not budge. If the CP has a type but has not been to school in 2 years I might get them listed on the insurance.
Just because you are single pilot qualified does not mean you can put anyone you want in the right seat. Read your insurance policy.
cmill
Cold Ass Honky
From my personal experience:
My first "real" job outside of instructing was a contract pilot on a C-500. The plane nor the captain was SP qualified, so I was "required." It was a 91 operation, and i had about 500TT, no jet experience, etc, etc, and i was paid $200 a day plus all expenses on trips, and had a blast.
Flame me if you want for the "low" rate, but I think that it was more than fair for someone with my (lack of) experience. If you have experience and a type rating, feel free to charge all the money you want. But for someone with low times theres a difference between required and useful. I learned a lot, got to go to some cool places, and got paid to do it.
Hope that helps the OP.
My first "real" job outside of instructing was a contract pilot on a C-500. The plane nor the captain was SP qualified, so I was "required." It was a 91 operation, and i had about 500TT, no jet experience, etc, etc, and i was paid $200 a day plus all expenses on trips, and had a blast.
Flame me if you want for the "low" rate, but I think that it was more than fair for someone with my (lack of) experience. If you have experience and a type rating, feel free to charge all the money you want. But for someone with low times theres a difference between required and useful. I learned a lot, got to go to some cool places, and got paid to do it.
Hope that helps the OP.
dustoff17
Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
Yes, our insurance allows for that. I have a 525S type rating. We're not required a SIC, I want a SIC.
Also, "Corporate Pilot", if your insurance covers you SP, why are you REQUIRED to have a qualified, current SIC? Either you're insured SP or you're not - you can't have it both ways! I'm thinking you're NOT insured SP. And, you said that you pay an unqualified, non-type rated pilot $350 a day in an Ultra and $400 in a 340? Really? Why would anyone ever go to FSI if they can make $400 a day flying for you guys?
A C500 requires a SIC unless you're evaluated and insured SP. A C525 does NOT. I want to open the door to someone much like the opportunity cmill got but I want to be fair with the pay.
One guy, 500TT and 65ME wanted $500 a day to sit right seat! No type rating!
Also, "Corporate Pilot", if your insurance covers you SP, why are you REQUIRED to have a qualified, current SIC? Either you're insured SP or you're not - you can't have it both ways! I'm thinking you're NOT insured SP. And, you said that you pay an unqualified, non-type rated pilot $350 a day in an Ultra and $400 in a 340? Really? Why would anyone ever go to FSI if they can make $400 a day flying for you guys?
A C500 requires a SIC unless you're evaluated and insured SP. A C525 does NOT. I want to open the door to someone much like the opportunity cmill got but I want to be fair with the pay.
One guy, 500TT and 65ME wanted $500 a day to sit right seat! No type rating!
gne in prog
Well-Known Member
^
Some insurance will cover you sp, but doesn't allow for non-qualified people to sit in the right seat as it can increase the workload on the person in the left seat. If your insurance doesn't see it that way, great.
I'd think you'd get someone one pretty good in the $250-300+ expenses range.
Some insurance will cover you sp, but doesn't allow for non-qualified people to sit in the right seat as it can increase the workload on the person in the left seat. If your insurance doesn't see it that way, great.
I'd think you'd get someone one pretty good in the $250-300+ expenses range.
dustoff17
Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
So you're thinking that when I operate SP, the same insurance company will allow me to fill the seat with a passenger but not a pilot?
That one doesn't pass the common sense test..................
I can put 9 passengers in there or 8 and a pilot. Even a pilot with only a PPL can talk on the radio, back me up with a checklist, and raise a question if things don't look right.
That one doesn't pass the common sense test..................
I can put 9 passengers in there or 8 and a pilot. Even a pilot with only a PPL can talk on the radio, back me up with a checklist, and raise a question if things don't look right.
wanabe
Well-Known Member
FWIW, I started in the Hawker with no formal training at $350 per day. Got a $50 bump for finishing SIC school, $50 bump at the year mark and another $50 bump for PIC.
I'm salaried now but when I occasionally contract the going rate for Hawker PIC is $500. Obviously that looks a little low per the chart given.
I'm salaried now but when I occasionally contract the going rate for Hawker PIC is $500. Obviously that looks a little low per the chart given.
CRJDriver
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't use the word "unqualified", but I know what you mean and that you are trying to give someone an opportunity. You could probably start out at $200/day, and like wanabe mentioned above, advance the pay as they get more experience/time in type/SIC qualified.
SIUav8er
Narcosis
I think $200 a day is a little on the low side, besides there are plenty of experienced pilots on the street. Other than saving some money, I don't see why you would want to use someone with no experience when there are guys with type ratings that could really use the work right now... just my opinion.
SIUav8er
Narcosis
Fwiw, I have a C500 type, 500 hours in a II and charged $400 a day when I was doing contract for an air ambulance company. After strugling to find work for a couple months prior to my current job, I didn't like seeing new guys with no time or type warming the right seat, while I couldn't find anything. I'm not trying to say don't help someone get started, but don't do it just to undercut everyone else.
dustoff17
Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
Where are they? I posted the job for both PIC and SIC. Everyone on this site wants to pounce anytime someone either offers to pay or someone offers to work for less than the "survey rate". Well, if there are "guys with type ratings" that meet the job requirements, let them step forward.
Of course if I read you right, you think that the guys without type ratings don't need work.
If you had that type and the hours, they weren't taking your seat, they were sitting next to you. Also, you COULD find work, you just chose not to work for less than you felt you "deserved". This is a decision you made based on something other than economics.
Look at your current job and figure what you make per day. Does it work out to $500-600? ($182k-219k) No? There's a shock! How about being reasonable with your rate?
By the way, $200 (or less until through training) is in the right range for someone that has <1000TT, minimal ME, NO ATP, <10hrs AI, and NO jet time. Of course, that's just me.....
P.S. CRJDriver; you're right. These guys ARE qualified as pilots, just not trained to the level of a competent, proficient SIC.
Wanabe, you're right on track with your contract rate. Don't let a survey change your thinking...............
Corporate Pilot
Well-Known Member
Wow dustoff17 were you having a bad day? Either I did not write my post correctly or you read it wrong.
I did not say that I am REQUIRED to have a SIC. I do get an SIC on long days and when we go to someplace like New York. When we do use an SIC they have had to have had school in the last 12 mo. As I stated the insurance company may make an exception if the pilot is typed and has time in the airplane, I have never used that execption.
I have reread my post and cannot find where I said that we pay an “unqualified, non-type rated pilot $350 a day in an Ultra and $400 in a 340? Really? Why would anyone ever go to FSI if they can make $400 a day flying for you guys?” The pilots in the 340 also must have had training on a 340 in the last year, which narrows down the pilot pool.
I do not appreciate your “I'm thinking you're NOT insured SP.” comment. I run a quality operation and when we use contract pilots they are highly qualified and we pay them a fare amount. In the three years that I have been running this operation every one of the contract SIC pilots I have used on the Citation have been typed in the airplane. Yes I am named in the insurance policy to fly SP!
I was just trying to point out some things to watch out for when you start paying someone to fly right seat. I now apologue for trying to do that.
dustoff17
Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
I apologize that I misunderstood your post. I thought you said you were SP qualified and insured. I thought you were saying that your insurance company doesn't require a SIC but then requires specific training for a SIC that doesn't have to be there.
IF, as you say, you're both qualified AND insured as SP, then why would the insurance company (or anyone else for that matter) care the qualifications of the person sitting on your right? Again, you can't have it both ways. This one doesn't pass the common reasoning test. You might want to look at your policy, you should be able to get a reduction on your premimums.
My point with regards to the "unqualified" comment is one that seems to escape many. My original post, and several in follow up, is asking for input on the fair pay for a non-type rated SIC. So in fairness to you, I thought you were providing an answer to my question. Sorry.
Also, I didn't say that you didn't run a quality operation. Never mentioned that.
IF, as you say, you're both qualified AND insured as SP, then why would the insurance company (or anyone else for that matter) care the qualifications of the person sitting on your right? Again, you can't have it both ways. This one doesn't pass the common reasoning test. You might want to look at your policy, you should be able to get a reduction on your premimums.
My point with regards to the "unqualified" comment is one that seems to escape many. My original post, and several in follow up, is asking for input on the fair pay for a non-type rated SIC. So in fairness to you, I thought you were providing an answer to my question. Sorry.
Also, I didn't say that you didn't run a quality operation. Never mentioned that.
gne in prog
Well-Known Member
^
I'm not arguing with you, just repeating what I've heard from insurance people. Babysitting an unqualiied f/o is a higher work load than flying it by yourself. Most of us have flown with someone where you thought you'd be better off alone. Most jets aren't good instructional aircraft.
Pax in the right seat tend to sit there and not touch anything. They've said if someone is going to be touching things, the ins company wants them trained on what they are touching.
If your ins company is ok with it, never mind, in my original post I was just pointing out you might want to check for it, I clearly have no knowledge of your policy.
I'm not arguing with you, just repeating what I've heard from insurance people. Babysitting an unqualiied f/o is a higher work load than flying it by yourself. Most of us have flown with someone where you thought you'd be better off alone. Most jets aren't good instructional aircraft.
Pax in the right seat tend to sit there and not touch anything. They've said if someone is going to be touching things, the ins company wants them trained on what they are touching.
If your ins company is ok with it, never mind, in my original post I was just pointing out you might want to check for it, I clearly have no knowledge of your policy.