Curious question

[Pilot Fighter]

Curious how the forgettable program was doing, I find that it was axed last year.

http://www.navytimes.com/article/20130824/CAREERS/308240003/Flying-warrant-officer-program-gets-ax

 

[MikeD]

Curious how the forgettable program was doing, I find that it was axed last year.

http://www.navytimes.com/article/20130824/CAREERS/308240003/Flying-warrant-officer-program-gets-ax

Tha man keepin' the WO's down again!

"Keeping the program going now, he said, is actually bad for both the unrestricted line aviation officer communities the warrants work in, as well as the warrant officer community as a whole."

Insofar as promotion potential and career effects, if the system doesn't support WOs getting promoted and/or causes potential for them to get unnecessarily passed over, then change the damn system! Not that difficult to do. But that's just the standard excuse in my opinion. The restricted line doesn't like its territory being threatened for jobs, and the unrestricted line doesn't like "riff-raff" occupying it's cockpits.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

Tha man keepin' the WO's down again!

"Keeping the program going now, he said, is actually bad for both the unrestricted line aviation officer communities the warrants work in, as well as the warrant officer community as a whole."

Insofar as promotion potential and career effects, if the system doesn't support WOs getting promoted and/or causes potential for them to get unnecessarily passed over, then change the damn system! Not that difficult to do. But that's just the standard excuse in my opinion. The restricted line doesn't like its territory being threatened for jobs, and the unrestricted line doesn't like "riff-raff" occupying it's cockpits.

When it comes to Naval Aviation, unless you carve out a place where warrant officers can thrive, it's better to send them to OCS and let them start from scratch as O-1's. Use the same OCS criteria that applies to everybody else except the requirement for a college degree.

 

[///AMG]

The Flying WO program was cancelled recently......I don't know if it was due to lack of interest, performance, or just no longer having a need. Either way, all those folks are getting turned into LT's/O-3's in the very near future and will no longer be warrants.

Aside from those particular warrants, the WO is alive and well in the USN, though not involved with flying (aside from maintenance types).

 

[Pilot Fighter]

I don't know if it was due to lack of interest, performance, or just no longer having a need. Either way, all those folks are getting turned into LT's/O-3's in the very near future and will no longer be warrants.

Was there ever really a need for an expanded CWO pilot and NFO program? I can't think of any good reasons. If they really were the cream of the crop, send them to OCS.

I think the CWO option can provide remedies to very unique staffing problems, providing win-win solutions. Who couldn't see problems with the Flying CWO program?

 

[///AMG]

Was there ever really a need for an expanded CWO pilot and NFO program? I can't think of any good reasons. If they really were the cream of the crop, send them to OCS.

I think the CWO option can provide remedies to very unique staffing problems, providing win-win solutions. Who couldn't see problems with the Flying CWO program?

Yeah I never really understood what it buys us. I don't know about other communities (helos/P-3's) but I know the last thing the VFA community needs is a no-load who just eats flight time and stays a JO forever. Don't get me wrong, that would be awesome to do on a personal level, but it isn't what the squadron needs. When I say no-load, that isn't a slight against the Warrants, but I am trying to figure out how the "pilot only" aspect would integrate in an operational squadron........for us, there just isn't room for a pilot who doesn't also have several ground jobs; we only have so many pilot billets per squadron and if you use up one of those on someone who is supposedly not in LAR for non-flying tasking, then you now have 8 JO's doing the work that 9 used to do as an example. That being said, it was never a VFA program so maybe my argument is moot. I'd honestly say that a more beneficial program for us would be to shed more of the non-flying DH level jobs onto pounders. It would take away some of the experience that a skipper would have from his/her DH tour, but whatever......I'd take more tactical more experienced pilots as a whole, over guys who are lackluster in the jet but spend a lot of time running the MX department........any mustang pounder can be a halfway decent MO, if not better than any pilot is ever going to be. Just my thoughts....

 

[woodreau]

I know there has been a heated debate amongst our pounders (all of whom were prior E's) as to what constitutes a Mustang. The guys who were first classes prior to commissioning swear it is any officer who was previously enlisted. The guys who made Chief before commissioning swear it is a term only reserved for E7 or above who then commission. I don't know which is right (maybe you do), but it is always an entertaining session in big league-ing.

I've never heard of the term Mustang being used outside of Naval aviation, so I'll limit my comments to that arena.

They do exist in the Surface Navy. The example in my post of the enlisted SEAL who had to be a surface officer before going back to the SEAL teams, he was an E-4 before getting commissioned an Ensign, he didn't consider himself a Mustang (and neither did the rest of the wardroom) and he eventually went on to command a SEAL team. We did have officers in the wardroom who were considered Mustangs, but they were CPOs prior to their commissioning and their career path did take them up to DH level (and in the DH capacity, took a billet that could be filled by an URL SWO), but were not command-eligible and usually they retired after their DH tour. We did have warrant officers, but the warrant officers didn't consider themselves as Mustangs.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

They do exist in the Surface Navy. The example in my post of the enlisted SEAL who had to be a surface officer before going back to the SEAL teams, he was an E-4 before getting commissioned an Ensign, he didn't consider himself a Mustang (and neither did the rest of the wardroom) and he eventually went on to command a SEAL team. We did have officers in the wardroom who were considered Mustangs, but they were CPOs prior to their commissioning and their career path did take them up to DH level (and in the DH capacity, took a billet that could be filled by an URL SWO), but were not command-eligible and usually they retired after their DH tour. We did have warrant officers, but the warrant officers didn't consider themselves as Mustangs.

In Naval aviation, the only commonly accepted exception to the CPO case is the aircrewman (less than E-7, without separation)to NFO. However, my father fit that description and doesn't consider himself a Mustang.