Curious about Aerial Photography

DeltaASA16

DeltaASA16

Well-Known Member
Hello all,

Summer is here and I've been looking for ways to build some time. A friend of mine suggested that I look at doing aerial photography! I have my ASEL Commercial Certificate and am really in to Photography (Canon DSLR Equipment).

I am seriously starting to consider doing it, but I am a little curious. If I advertised my photography services, would that be considered holding out? I am not carrying passengers or cargo for compensation or hire. I looked in to the FARs, regulations which would tell me about the limits of aerial photography.. but the ones I researched 61.118 and 135.1(b) are listed as "reserved." (even though the websites said they would tell me about it.. )

Can anyone help clear this up for me? The way I see it, I am paying for the plane rental and the customer is only paying for the print of their house/company building. Would the FAA see it as me charging the customer for the plane? ... please help
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-Adam
 
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I am seriously starting to consider doing it, but I am a little curious. If I advertised my photography services, would that be considered holding out? I am not carrying passengers or cargo for compensation or hire. I looked in to the FARs, regulations which would tell me about the limits of aerial photography.. but the ones I researched 61.118 and 135.1(b) are listed as "reserved." (even though the websites said they would tell me about it.. )

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No, it wouldn't be holding out.
 
Areial photography does require a CPL.

You are not carrying anybody for hire.

You are selling the photos, not the airplane ride. The cost of renting the airplane is simply an added cost of takeing the pictures.

If someone hires you to fly the plane while they take pictures, then you do need to have a CPL. If you and a pilot rated friend split the time while you fly and he takes the pictures, and vice versa, then you only need a PPL. You can then split the profit from selling the photos.

Make sure you are good at slow flight. As you will need to fly low and slow to minimize your ground speed. A C-150 is great for this. Ask the FBO if they can take out the passenger side window (it's a 20 min job).

My parents have a picture of the farm I grew up on. They said that the potographer jut took pictures of every farm in the county, and came by a few days later selling the photos. Be careful, some people consider this an invasion of their privacy and may object. Make sure you cover any new houseing developments.
 
At a professional level it is pretty tough to both fly the aircraft and shoot at the same time. Not to mention that it would also be dangerous. I have a load of hours flying professional photographers and getting good pictures often requires some slightly risky flying. You are flying low & slow and then you usually end up doing who knows what with the rudder and ailerons to position the camera for the shot. It is a recipe for a stall spin accident if you are not paying 100% attention to the aircraft. You really have to be focused on the flying. Serious aerial shooting almost always requires more positioning and effort than a simple fly by and click.

Not that you cant do basic shooting while flying solo, but either the quality or the safety has to be compromised. I don’t think you can have both doing it alone. At least not for stuff that requires low altitude work.
 
I wish I could afford a Canon Digital Rebel!!! Digital SLR is sweet! For now I have to deal with my Canon A70.
 
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No, it wouldn't be holding out.

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Gotta disagree. The product being sold is photos, not transportation of passengers or cargo for hire.
 
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Not that you cant do basic shooting while flying solo, but either the quality or the safety has to be compromised. I don’t think you can have both doing it alone. At least not for stuff that requires low altitude work.

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But you'll get the best shot in the world.......just before making a smoking hole.
 
It requires a CPL because you are using the airplane in the futherance of your business, i.e. aerial photography.

If you were using the airplane to go somewhere to take pictures, then that use of the aircraft would be "incidental" to your business and all you would need there is a PPL.

There are a lot of case studies about people who are hit by the FAA for holding out without the commerical since in the FAA's eyes you are making money with the plane.

Best be safe and get the CPL. I am thinking of doing that myself, just so I can pursue aerial photography as well.

AOPA has a lot of articles on the fine line between doing private flying and something commercial which you may want to check out.
 
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check out this website http://airphotoinfo.com/mo/index.html
this guy has free tele-seminars every so often... pretty informative

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That guy's website gives off an aura of a "get rich quick" scheme... seems very sketchy with regard to offering the information packages to buy.
 
I have done a little aerial photo work recently and found out that it was pretty much impossible to both fly the plane and take a good photo. It is definately worth the investment to bring another pilot along to fly the plane while you are shooting. I use a Canon Digital SLR with a 2.8 180-450mm zoom lens at 100 ISO.

Here are my first attempts:

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IMG_1504.jpg


IMG_1517.jpg


IMG_1530.jpg
 
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check out this website http://airphotoinfo.com/mo/index.html
this guy has free tele-seminars every so often... pretty informative

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That guy's website gives off an aura of a "get rich quick" scheme... seems very sketchy with regard to offering the information packages to buy.

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I checked it out a while back and it was a pretty useful site. I've done a little aerial photography just for fun and hope to get a real company formed this summer with my friend (the plane owner/pilot). Here's a quick shot I got a week or so ago with my Kodak (I don't have the fancy equipment like Adam!).

myhouse8ch.jpg


Aslong as you shoot after 3pm and know a little bit about photography it's pretty easy. The good thing about the Champ that I shoot from is the whole window opens and I can stick my head/camera out of the aircraft to get a shot and dont' have to worry about the blue tint from the windows to worry about.

We used to have a good photographer that was active in the forums, does any one know what happen to him, I haven't been around much?

Alex.
 
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It requires a CPL because you are using the airplane in the futherance of your business, i.e. aerial photography.

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Nope, that's a PPL rule. Otherwise, all the salesmen that travel around the country in an airplane would need Comm ratings. 61.113(b)(1) says a PPL may act as pilot in command for compensation or hire if the flight is only incidental to that business or employment. Since the product being sold is a photo, then the flight is incidental. Now, if he were charging to take OTHER people up to take pictures, THEN he would need a Comm rating.
 
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Since the product being sold is a photo, then the flight is incidental.

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I think that it makes a difference that he is selling aerial photos of specific properties, as opposed to traveling to a site to take ground based photos. The use of the plane isn't quite so incidental, is it?
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Kind of funny, though, that everyone has gotten away from the point of the original poster. He, in fact, does have a Commercial license, and his question was regarding "holding out" in relation to aerial photography.

Adam, I think that you're fine doing aerial photo work with a commercial pilot's license. You are not transporting people, so the holding out clause doesn't apply. (My amateur opinion only - usual disclaimers.)
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I'm still not sure - the plane is being used to make money. In the case of a salesman, he doesn't need to take a plane, as he could take a train or car to go wherever he needs to. The plane is not required in order for the salesman to sell whatever he's selling.

With aerial photography, the plane is an integral part of the business and I think that in this case a CPL is required. After all, without the plane, there are no aerial photos.

If the photographer were taking pictures of, say, weddings, and he used the plane to get from wedding to wedding to take pictures then I guess all he needs there is a PPL. He doesn't need a plane to take wedding pictures. So the plane here is incidental - it just gets him to where he needs to be to make money.

At least that is the impression I got after reading several articles in AOPA about this. And even then, there were a lot of grey areas. I suppose the safest thing to do would be to just get the CPL anyway.
 
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He, in fact, does have a Commercial license, and his question was regarding "holding out" in relation to aerial photography.

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Yeah, definately not holding out.
 
I used to fly shoot-out-the-window aerial photography (real estate, land development, advertising, etc), and I also flew aerial survey photography (survey camera in the belly).

It's a basic commercial pilot operation, regardless of whether you are flying/shooting or flying a photographer. Some guys dabble in this type of work (i.e. common for local CFIs and/or their FBO) and they will advertise aerial photography services; they will go up and shoot land with a 35mm camera, with or without a photographer.

Next up on the totem pole are the more established aerial photography companies that use medium-format cameras, have their own dedicated pilots/aircraft, and do high-volume, high-quality site shooting for a wide variety of clients. A medium-format negative provides a super high-resolution photo that can be enlarged to very large sizes for various commercial purposes. When I did this, I might take a stack of site info packets (anywhere from 5-20 sites) and plan a shooting run (or runs) that would take me to each site. Many local sites around town were for local clients, and some took us across the U.S. We would shoot and fly simultaneously, and it took lots of practice to frame up the shots right, maneuver the plane safely at various altitudes, talk to ATC, navigate to the sites, navigate thru congested airspace, operate the camera/lenses, change film, etc. Sometimes, it got pretty dicey, especially at low altitudes. When you do it for hours, it's hard work and it's tiring. You get some long flying days logged, though (I think I logged about 13.5 hours in one day doing this stuff, my personal record if I remember right. Not saying that's smart, nor is it typical, but it happens).


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Nope, that's a PPL rule. Otherwise, all the salesmen that travel around the country in an airplane would need Comm ratings. 61.113(b)(1) says a PPL may act as pilot in command for compensation or hire if the flight is only incidental to that business or employment. Since the product being sold is a photo, then the flight is incidental. Now, if he were charging to take OTHER people up to take pictures, THEN he would need a Comm rating.

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HUH? - this is confusing. This type of commercial aerial photography work is Commercial Pilot flying, unless the photos are just for yourself.
 
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