Crowd Sourced Flight Training?

Murdoughnut said:
My wife's best friend is making us pay $5k to attend her out of the country wedding at an all inclusive resort, and then had the balls to ask us to contribute to her crowd funding campaign for the $6k she needs for surgery on her 13-year old pug. Yeah, not doing that.
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It's not like she's got a gun to your head. I mean, I know - it's your wife's best friend and she feels like she HAS to go, but it's not a forced thing. $5K is a lot of dosh for that. I'm hoping you guys make a vacation out of it!
 
killbilly said:
It's not like she's got a gun to your head. I mean, I know - it's your wife's best friend and she feels like she HAS to go, but it's not a forced thing. $5K is a lot of dosh for that. I'm hoping you guys make a vacation out of it!
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Well my wife is the maid of honor - we are making a vacation out of it, which will be nice, but for $5k there are a ton of places we'd go before Grenada - particularly since we live in Florida and generally like to vacation in places that aren't the beach.
 
I don't have my mind made up on the issue yet, but panhandlers on the street drive me nuts.

No I don't hate the poor or engage in those ridiculous "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" speech, but here in PHX it's an organized racket. They're selling "Instant Goodwill" a $1 at a time. The people handing money out the window feel like they're good people and actually accomplished something, and the panhandler adds it to the coffers and drives home that evening.

I know it makes me sound like a rich, smug •, but that $1 handed out the window does as much to solve "whatever" than a flight attendant who brings 50 lbs of cat food to Turkey in order to solve the "homeless, starving kitty" epidemic along the Maramara.
 
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Derg said:
I don't have my mind made up on the issue yet, but panhandlers on the street drive me nuts.

No I don't hate the poor or engage in those ridiculous "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" speech, but here in PHX it's an organized racket. They're selling "Instant Goodwill" a $1 at a time. The people handing money out the window feel like they're good people and actually accomplished something, and the panhandler adds it to the coffers and drives home that evening.

I know it makes me sound like a rich, smug •, but that $1 handed out the window does as much to solve "whatever" than a flight attendant who brings 50 lbs of cat food to Turkey in order to solve the "homeless, starving kitty" epidemic along the Maramara.
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I would suggest soup kitchens, they are often collocated with employment centers for those who do want to help themselves.
 
2 school of thoughts. First is "I do not accept donations" and will work for what i want. These people are the same that would not take a handout or assistance to survive or achieve their goal.

The second school of thought is "i don't have a problem asking for help if people are willing to give it." These are the people that would rather ask for donations or accept freebies to achieve their goal. If it isn't illegal whats the harm?

I don't donate money (have donated time and items) to those in need. If you want to give money to someone you don't know by all means go ahead. It's your money and you can do what you want. Just don't be pissed when they go spend it on crack or a new car!
 
Derg said:
I don't have my mind made up on the issue yet, but panhandlers on the street drive me nuts.

No I don't hate the poor or engage in those ridiculous "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" speech, but here in PHX it's an organized racket. They're selling "Instant Goodwill" a $1 at a time. The people handing money out the window feel like they're good people and actually accomplished something, and the panhandler adds it to the coffers and drives home that evening.

I know it makes me sound like a rich, smug •, but that $1 handed out the window does as much to solve "whatever" than a flight attendant who brings 50 lbs of cat food to Turkey in order to solve the "homeless, starving kitty" epidemic along the Maramara.
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The fastest way to make em do an about face is to tell them: "I don't give out cash, but if you hold on while I park (if a restaurant is close) and meet me at (insert restaurant name). I'll happily buy you whatever you want. And then we can go to Goodwill to get you some clothes and supplies." They will all mostly probably decline your kind offer.

Either they're part of the organized racket, or they're drug addicts looking for money for their next hit. That's what I've noticed.
 
I give to my church because they're better at getting money to the right people. But when I see an obviously struggling person panhandling outside of a restaurant, I'll sometimes go in, buy a meal to go, and take it to them.
 
Murdoughnut said:
My wife's best friend is making us pay $5k to attend her out of the country wedding at an all inclusive resort, and then had the balls to ask us to contribute to her crowd funding campaign for the $6k she needs for surgery on her 13-year old pug. Yeah, not doing that.
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No to both. Next thing they'll be "crowdsourcing" the cost of the pool repairs and a set of tires for the Range Rover.

Buy a toaster at Bed, Bath & Beyond, offer to drive them to the airport, and send them a get well card for the pug.
 
At the age of 15, boys are "interested' in a lot of things. This doesn't mean he will be interested in aviation in a year or two. I would be far more impressed if the kid went to some local FBOs, and local businesses and offered to do any kind of work for them for some money, put up some signs saying he will wash airplanes and do whatever for the owners, get a part-time job and save his money, save the money from birthdays, Christmas etc., that he might get along the way, sell a few things that he doesn't need to schoolmates, offer to do odd jobs around his neighborhood, like clean out garages, mow grass, pull weeds, plant flowers, clean windows, do small errands, etc. In other words, raise and earn the funds himself. Then you'll know how serious he is about aviation as a career.

But asking total strangers and/or friends to support of the costs of your kid's "dream" is disgusting. What are you teaching him? That you planned poorly and cannot afford to give him the training? That all he has to do to get what he wants is beg strangers for it? If you are really that ready to " we are willing to give up as much as we can", then have your husband get a second part-time job or you get one when the kids are in school, or on the weekends when your husband is home to watch them, or one you can work from home to help your son "find his wings". Your son is your responsibility, not the responsibility of friends or strangers.

I earned every dime it cost for my training, so did my Father before me and so did my son. If it takes longer that way, so be it. Nothing of value is free. And nothing of value that is not earned, is respected, admirable or appreciated.

If the Mother went on crowd sourcing to ask for help with medical bills for a child who has cancer or some other awful serious disease that they need help in paying for treatment of, that would be fine. But this nonsense is just that. Nonsense. You deserve what you earn, not what is given to you by strangers for nothing in exchange. What happened to parents teaching their children real life lessons? What happened to people being financially responsible in planning for how many children they ought to have that they can actually afford an education and/or training for to get them started in life with a career? Good grief.
 
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A Life Aloft said:
At the age of 15, boys are "interested' in a lot of things. This doesn't mean he will be interested in aviation in a year or two. I would be far more impressed if the kid went to some local FBOs, and local businesses and offered to do any kind of work for them for some money, put up some signs saying he will wash airplanes and do whatever for the owners, get a part-time job and save his money, save the money from birthdays, Christmas etc., that he might get along the way, sell a few things that he doesn't need to schoolmates, offer to do odd jobs around his neighborhood, like clean out garages, mow grass, pull weeds, plant flowers, clean windows, do small errands, etc. In other words, raise and earn the funds himself. Then you'll know how serious he is about aviation as a career.

But asking total strangers and/or friends to support of the costs of your kid's "dream" is disgusting. What are you teaching him? That you planned poorly and cannot afford to give him the training? That all he has to do to get what he wants is beg strangers for it? If you are really that ready to " we are willing to give up as much as we can", then have your husband get a second part-time job or you get one when the kids are in school, or on the weekends when your husband is home to watch them, or one you can work from home to help your son "find his wings". Your son is your responsibility, not the responsibility of friends or strangers.

I earned every dime it cost for my training, so did my Father before me and so did my son. If it takes longer that way, so be it. Nothing of value is free. And nothing of value that is not earned, is respected, admirable or appreciated.

If the Mother went on crowd sourcing to ask for help with medical bills for a child who has cancer or some other awful serious disease that they need help in paying for treatment of, that would be fine. But this nonsense is just that. Nonsense. You deserve what you earn, not what is given to you by strangers for nothing in exchange. What happened to parents teaching their children real life lessons? What happened to people being financially responsible in planning for how many children they ought to have that they can actually afford an education and/or training for to get them started in life with a career? Good grief.
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This is more or less the way I was raised and probably how I would raise my own kids.

But it's a different world than 20-30 years ago, and crowd-sourcing stuff like this is not only more common, but more socially acceptable.Two or three generations ago it would have probably been generally considered shameful, but that stigma is reduced these days. Agree or not, but it definitely is indicative of changing times.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
The fastest way to make em do an about face is to tell them: "I don't give out cash, but if you hold on while I park (if a restaurant is close) and meet me at (insert restaurant name). I'll happily buy you whatever you want. And then we can go to Goodwill to get you some clothes and supplies." They will all mostly probably decline your kind offer.

Either they're part of the organized racket, or they're drug addicts looking for money for their next hit. That's what I've noticed.
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There was one at the intersection of N. Scottsdale Road and Mayo, one at each entrance to both shopping centers on the north and south side of Mayo and one at the 101/Scottsdale Road offramp and one in he median.

Simultaneously.

All "Disabled Vets"

Sure. Uh huh.
 
killbilly said:
This is more or less the way I was raised and probably how I would raise my own kids.

But it's a different world than 20-30 years ago, and crowd-sourcing stuff like this is not only more common, but more socially acceptable.Two or three generations ago it would have probably been generally considered shameful, but that stigma is reduced these days. Agree or not, but it definitely is indicative of changing times.
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I get that social media is a huge deal even though I don't participate on/in it. But, some things never change and to me that is the ability to earn/be hard working to get the finances for what you want to do in your private life to start a career path and the ability for parents to instill this in their children and to be responsible/make the sacrifices themselves for the children that they have and not to expect hand outs from strangers. That's just ridiculous.

If a person has a terrific and legit invention let's say, and they need funding for that.....then I can see them seeking out that funding. But that funding also should come with the obligation of either paying back the monies at some point or giving the donors a piece of the business. That is how it works in the real business world. No one owes you dick for your little idea and you aren't going to raise much money if you are not already an established/known entity and offering no guarantees and nothing back for the investor, in truth. Otherwise, one is just pissing their money into the wind and might as well find a legit charity to donate it to where it could actually do some good. You might get a few thousand from some random people with more money than common sense, but that's chump change in relation to starting any real, viable business.

There is waaaaay too much entitlement mentality going on as it is. Where does it stop at/lead to? Hey strangers on the internet, I want a new house.....send money....need a new car too....... send money and I really need a vaca in the Bahamas......send money. Just because I cannot afford it and don't want to work for it doesn't mean I don't deserve it!!!
 
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Derg said:
I don't have my mind made up on the issue yet, but panhandlers on the street drive me nuts.

No I don't hate the poor or engage in those ridiculous "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" speech, but here in PHX it's an organized racket. They're selling "Instant Goodwill" a $1 at a time. The people handing money out the window feel like they're good people and actually accomplished something, and the panhandler adds it to the coffers and drives home that evening.

I know it makes me sound like a rich, smug •, but that $1 handed out the window does as much to solve "whatever" than a flight attendant who brings 50 lbs of cat food to Turkey in order to solve the "homeless, starving kitty" epidemic along the Maramara.
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It was kind of shocking moving down here and seeing the amount of people standing with signs on the off ramps. I'm not a fan either at all. And they are everywhere.

I find it even more surprising the amount of people who actually give them money. Stop giving them money and they'll go away. Say's the small town guy from Nebraska. But what do I know.
 
A Life Aloft said:
At the age of 15, boys are "interested' in a lot of things. This doesn't mean he will be interested in aviation in a year or two. I would be far more impressed if the kid went to some local FBOs, and local businesses and offered to do any kind of work for them for some money, put up some signs saying he will wash airplanes and do whatever for the owners, get a part-time job and save his money, save the money from birthdays, Christmas etc., that he might get along the way, sell a few things that he doesn't need to schoolmates, offer to do odd jobs around his neighborhood, like clean out garages, mow grass, pull weeds, plant flowers, clean windows, do small errands, etc. In other words, raise and earn the funds himself. Then you'll know how serious he is about aviation as a career.
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I'm all for that sort of thing too, but realize that we're talking about a $200/hour, or more, endeavor nowadays. The costs are not even close to what it was even when I started flying. We've priced a lot of people out of the 'dream,' I think. (This is coming from a guy who did, in fact, wash and fuel airplanes.) But otherwise, I agree with you.

(The remainder of your post is truncated, as I do agree with you; I think it's a VERY tacky way to make money. I do have a very good friend who is making a calendar to put a new engine on her high-performance aerobatic airplane, but that's another story. Indeed, it's entirely another story.)
 
I have seen and been a part of crowd funding first hand, and in my opinion, this is not what it was intended for. Crowd funding is supposed to be a way for the public to back ideas and products that they want to see become a reality. Its to help a college student or inventor launch the next best web tool or medical device without the major backing of a VC or Corporate partner. Unfortunately, its become a way for people to beg and guilt others into contributing to their own causes. Check out how many people on Indiegogo are asking for money so they can buy themselves something or pay for pet medication. The sad thing is, if you have 10,000 people looking for handouts, its going to be that much more difficult for backers to find things that really are worth supporting. Eventually people will lose interest in crowd funding ideas and we will lose a really good tool for emerging ideas.
 
Tell the little brat to play fewer sports and to bus more tables. And while you're at it, tell his parents that they shouldn't have popped out more kids than they could afford.

Getting help from family is one thing. Begging for it from others is just classless.
 
Ok I've got one for you guys. Would you rather donate money to someone who wants to get their private pilots license or to someone who left their child in a car for a job interview?

Crazy stuff down here in Arizona.
 
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