Crossing Over!
- Thread starter Samurai Sam
- Start date
Rosstafari
Hello, this is Orlando mayor Buddy Dyer
This is the most lively conversation we've had in the ATC forum in weeks.
Between several non-controllers. Hmm.
Between several non-controllers. Hmm.
Rosstafari
Hello, this is Orlando mayor Buddy Dyer
It's been slow but steady, with about two a month or so. They've scheduled some for FY11 already, but have generally been withholding FOLs until we get closer to the fiscal year. It's difficult for HR to predict how many to send (and how many they can afford) without knowing what the future of their budget is beyond a couple months at a time.
Course, Congress just postponed the Reauthorization Bill AGAINST on Wednesday (possibly Tues, can't recall right now), so... ain't much new gonna happen for now.
Course, Congress just postponed the Reauthorization Bill AGAINST on Wednesday (possibly Tues, can't recall right now), so... ain't much new gonna happen for now.
crashmbern
Well-Known Member
Well I may be crossing over. Been at eagle for 4 1/2 years and have an offer for ZNY. Take my medical and psych test next week. Not looking forward the having to make a decision.
Rosstafari
Hello, this is Orlando mayor Buddy Dyer
Between regional and ATC? Or between later career options and ATC? Cause that first one, y'know...
Samurai Sam
Well-Known Member
Ok, so here's my new option, tell me what you think.
I was looking at the USAF, going in as an officer, and working ATC for my 4 years (if its possible, im going to talk to a recruiter this week). I know the airlines are not for me, and more and more i find myself wanting to be ATC. I want Kansas City Center or Tower...shoot for the moon right? will the airforce be a good way to go? anyone here at ZKC? any ideas of who to contact and get to know before (if) i do the USAF who might be able to help me out getting into ZKC or the Tower?
I was looking at the USAF, going in as an officer, and working ATC for my 4 years (if its possible, im going to talk to a recruiter this week). I know the airlines are not for me, and more and more i find myself wanting to be ATC. I want Kansas City Center or Tower...shoot for the moon right? will the airforce be a good way to go? anyone here at ZKC? any ideas of who to contact and get to know before (if) i do the USAF who might be able to help me out getting into ZKC or the Tower?
Cheezypoof
Well-Known Member
Can't speak for Kansas City, but ZOB isn't hiring FY2011. We will see if that holds true though. The last class from Oklahoma showed up in late May I think... so could be a year and a half with no new trainees if it holds true.
Prino
Well-Known Member
well I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the atc is an enlistment job (aka going in as an officer AND doing atc is not an option) secondly, it's a 6 year duty which would probably get you out well after your 31st birthday (which is the cutoff for being able to be hired as atc) your only real other option would be to go DOD as a controller (still not sure if you could) but the bad thing about that is you couldn't go to kansas center or work at the tower since its FAA. the quickest way to get hired would be to find a cti school that does a 2 year program. but unfortunately that's still a shot in the dark. because we don't know what the hiring will be like that far out. good luck.
fish314
Well-Known Member
Most of the tower and RAPCON guys seem to be enlisted, in all of the AF towers I've been in. I'm a pilot who's done the occasionally SOF duty, though (supervisor of flying... not special operations forces) not really an expert. But it seems like the officers wind up being the airfield ops flight commander, or airfield ops assistant flight commander and working paperwork and policy, rather than controlling. I've never actually seen an officer sitting a shift at the tower (don't have the same level of experience in the RAPCON, though, but it seems about the same from what little I have seen).
fish314
Well-Known Member
Beat me to it, and with better info to boot. I was wondering about that. So there aren't any officers in the career field then? Do you know what kind of training do the airfield ops Flt/CC and AFC get? I always assumed they did some kind of work in that area, since they command all the atc'ers.
You've worked ATC.....in a sense....haven't you?
""Final, go around, use burner."
"Recorder, give him a ......PSIP, LF, LTD."
FlyWhiteSox
Well-Known Member
If 28 is indeed too late to start the process, then when is the latest someone should begin a CTI program?
I am well aware of the fact that nothing is static in this field. It might be helpful for some interested people to know where they stand as far as the age requirement is concerned.
Could someone fill in the blanks?
Age Range 1: No problem.
Age Range 2: Should be fine.
Age Range 3: Will be close if everything goes smoothly.
Age Range 4: It will take a miracle.
I am well aware of the fact that nothing is static in this field. It might be helpful for some interested people to know where they stand as far as the age requirement is concerned.
Could someone fill in the blanks?
Age Range 1: No problem.
Age Range 2: Should be fine.
Age Range 3: Will be close if everything goes smoothly.
Age Range 4: It will take a miracle.
Rosstafari
Hello, this is Orlando mayor Buddy Dyer
Sure. Although it's kind of best guess stuff. Like you said, it's not static. But based on a slight improvement of the most recent trends, if someone were looking to start their CTI schooling this coming fall semester...
18-23: No problem, whether you're doing a two year or a full four year. At the oldest, you're getting out at 27, and while some CTIs have had to wait up to two years to get selected, that'd still give you two years between selection and receiving your TOL (where your age is frozen).
24-26: Should be fine. You'll want to go for a two year program to be safe, but that's okay... a CTI recommendation is not the same as a degree. You're going for the former from here on; feel free to persue a bachelor's after you've picked it up, if you'd like.
27: Will be close if everything goes smoothly. It'd be safest to aim for the one-year program they have out at... er... Vaughn? CCBC?, just to give yourself as much time as possible. Even when things improve, it may take you a year to get selected, and who knows if there's something that may hold up your TOL.
28-29: It will take a miracle. Low end of 28 may fit into the former group, but after that, you've got to nail down that one year program and get yourself picked up immediately. You'd better start getting to know the selectors for where you're going and figuring out a way to get in their good graces. It may be worth your while to consider one of the CTO programs, at Link or Advanced ATC, but those are still so new that nobody's been hired off of them yet (and they cost $30-$50,000). Especially if you're 29, you're banking on a miracle.
FlyWhiteSox
Well-Known Member
Thanks Ross.
Excellent info. It's nice to see a more concrete "guesstimation."
I'm 24 and enrolling in a two-year program that should be more like a 1.5 year program with my previous college credits, so hopefully I will fall in the "No Problem" range!
Excellent info. It's nice to see a more concrete "guesstimation."
I'm 24 and enrolling in a two-year program that should be more like a 1.5 year program with my previous college credits, so hopefully I will fall in the "No Problem" range!
Entering ATC in the Air Force with a four year degree as an officer would make you a CATCO (chief of air traffic control officer) and yes they are facility rated... The plus side to military atc at your late age is the fact faa grants you an age waiver since you will have current faa/military experience, meaning the 31 year old age limit doesn't apply to you since you were a already a controller, in fact many air force controllers crossover to the civilian side...
The only way your going to get the real scoop on what it's like to be a catco is to arrange a visit to a military base and meet with the current catco, which is something you can arrange directly through the base or your local officer recruiter...
The only way your going to get the real scoop on what it's like to be a catco is to arrange a visit to a military base and meet with the current catco, which is something you can arrange directly through the base or your local officer recruiter...
genot
Well-Known Member
Not true. That only applies if you've served a full 20 years in the military and get selected for a Phoenix Controller 20 opening. If you seperate from the military at say age 32, you're out of luck as far as FAA employment goes. DOD Civilian I believe has a slightly larger age window. I've met a former Navy ACer who got selected on one of those bids, I've also met a few contract tower controllers who seperated too late for FAA employment.
I'm older than dirt and stand corrected... I should of gone back and looked up the latest... Many moons ago military controllers would receive an age waiver from 31 to 36 and is the reasons so many air force controllers were leaving for the civilian side, because once you reached age 36 or retired from the air force your were done because the faa said you were to old and they didn't want you...
By the way for those claiming the absolute age cut off is 31... Here's a posting that's listed today for a controller with 36yrs as the age limit...
The incumbent will be responsible for the safe, orderly, and expeditious flow of air traffic within assigned sectors. Maintain continuing control of the airspace which encompasses restricted areas. Control air traffic using radar ensuring precise alignment of both search and precision radar scopes, establishing and maintaining positive radar identification of aircraft, issuing turns and altitude so as to establish and maintain appropriate separations, vectoring aircraft to the final approach course, and issuing glide path and azimuth information. Provide instructions and advisories to ensure an orderly flow of traffic operating under Visual Flight Rules (VFR) and Instrument Flight Rules (IFR). Operate fixed based control tower and radar equipment according to local procedures, report aircraft accidents, incidents, and deviations from appropriate regulations, and perform all duties required by applicable ATC standards and regulations.
Qualifications and Evaluations
QUALIFICATIONS REQUIRED:
Click on link below to view qualification standard.
General Schedule SPECIALIZED EXPERIENCE: Experience in a military or civilian air traffic facility that demonstrated possession of the knowledge, skills, and abilities required to perform the level of work of the specialization for which application is made. This experience must have provided a comprehensive knowledge of appropriate air traffic control laws, rules, and regulations. Terminal Positions: Issuing control instructions and advice to pilots in the vicinity of airports to assure proper separation of aircraft and to expedite their safe and efficient movement. This specialization also requires: Ability to act decisively under stressful situations and to maintain alertness over sustained periods of pressure; Skill to coordinate plans and actions with pilots and other controllers; and Judgment to select and take the safest and most effective course of action from among several available choices. Must be able to perform full performance level (FPL) duties as a Control Tower Operator at all control and data positions in a level IV radar approach control facility. Must possess a technical knowledge and broad experience in the control of various types of aircraft in an arrival, departure, and enroute environment. Has a complete knowledge of ATC procedures and regulations and requires a thorough understanding of aircraft characteristics and control procedures for both civil and military air traffic. Proficient in the operation of ARTS IIIA and FDEP STARS equipment. Must possess the ability to remain calm under very stressful conditions brought an by rapidly changing air traffic situations. Individual must be able to analyze air traffic situations and instantaneously develop a plan for the safe, orderly and expeditious flow of air traffic.
Applications submitted under this vacancy announcement may be used up to 6 months after the issuance of the first referral to fill like positions permanently or by temporary promotion which may be made or extended up to a maximum of five years and may be converted to permanent without further competition.
CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT: (1) The incumbent must obtain and maintain a valid Air Traffic Control Specialist Certificate and/or Control Tower Operator Certificate. (2) Must be able to pass a Class 11 flight physical. (3) Will be required to work overtime during range missions controllers.
ICTAP: Surplus/displaced Federal Civil Service employees must be rated well-qualified in order to be considered under the ICTAP programs. In order to be rated well qualified for this position, you must be rated well qualified (90/above minus veteran's preference) to be considered under ICTAP
VETERANS PERFERENCE: For information on veterans preference, please refer to the following website: http://www.opm.gov/veterans/html/vetguide.asp
MILITARY SPOUSE PERFERENCE: For information on military spouse preference, please refer to the following website: http://www.cpms.osd.mil/fas/staffing/pdf/st006.pdf.
The experience described in your resume will be evaluated and screened for the Office of Personnel Management's basic qualifications requirements, and the skills needed to perform the duties of this position as described in this vacancy announcement.
One year of experience in the same or similar work equivalent to at least the next lower grade or level requiring application of the knowledge, skills, and abilities of the position being filled.
Demonstrated work experience that equipped the applicant with the particular knowledge, skills, and abilities to successfully perform the duties of the position, and that is typically in or related to the work of the position to be filled.
Other Requirements:
Click here for more information. Must be able to obtain and maintain a Secret security clearance.
A medical examination is required.
Must comply with Drug Abuse Testing Program requirements.
Maximum entry age of 36 applies for Air Traffic Controllers.
Male applicants born after December 31, 1959 must complete a Pre-Employment Certification Statement for Selective Service Registration.
Direct Deposit of Pay is Required.
Failure to provide all of the required information as stated in the vacancy announcement may result in an ineligible rating or may affect the overall rating.
HOW YOU WILL BE EVALUATED:
Resumes will be evaluated for basic qualifications requirements and for the skills needed to perform the duties of the position, as described in this vacancy announcement and identified by the Selecting Official for the position.
By the way for those claiming the absolute age cut off is 31... Here's a posting that's listed today for a controller with 36yrs as the age limit...
The incumbent will be responsible for the safe, orderly, and expeditious flow of air traffic within assigned sectors. Maintain continuing control of the airspace which encompasses restricted areas. Control air traffic using radar ensuring precise alignment of both search and precision radar scopes, establishing and maintaining positive radar identification of aircraft, issuing turns and altitude so as to establish and maintain appropriate separations, vectoring aircraft to the final approach course, and issuing glide path and azimuth information. Provide instructions and advisories to ensure an orderly flow of traffic operating under Visual Flight Rules (VFR) and Instrument Flight Rules (IFR). Operate fixed based control tower and radar equipment according to local procedures, report aircraft accidents, incidents, and deviations from appropriate regulations, and perform all duties required by applicable ATC standards and regulations.
Qualifications and Evaluations
QUALIFICATIONS REQUIRED:
Click on link below to view qualification standard.
General Schedule SPECIALIZED EXPERIENCE: Experience in a military or civilian air traffic facility that demonstrated possession of the knowledge, skills, and abilities required to perform the level of work of the specialization for which application is made. This experience must have provided a comprehensive knowledge of appropriate air traffic control laws, rules, and regulations. Terminal Positions: Issuing control instructions and advice to pilots in the vicinity of airports to assure proper separation of aircraft and to expedite their safe and efficient movement. This specialization also requires: Ability to act decisively under stressful situations and to maintain alertness over sustained periods of pressure; Skill to coordinate plans and actions with pilots and other controllers; and Judgment to select and take the safest and most effective course of action from among several available choices. Must be able to perform full performance level (FPL) duties as a Control Tower Operator at all control and data positions in a level IV radar approach control facility. Must possess a technical knowledge and broad experience in the control of various types of aircraft in an arrival, departure, and enroute environment. Has a complete knowledge of ATC procedures and regulations and requires a thorough understanding of aircraft characteristics and control procedures for both civil and military air traffic. Proficient in the operation of ARTS IIIA and FDEP STARS equipment. Must possess the ability to remain calm under very stressful conditions brought an by rapidly changing air traffic situations. Individual must be able to analyze air traffic situations and instantaneously develop a plan for the safe, orderly and expeditious flow of air traffic.
Applications submitted under this vacancy announcement may be used up to 6 months after the issuance of the first referral to fill like positions permanently or by temporary promotion which may be made or extended up to a maximum of five years and may be converted to permanent without further competition.
CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT: (1) The incumbent must obtain and maintain a valid Air Traffic Control Specialist Certificate and/or Control Tower Operator Certificate. (2) Must be able to pass a Class 11 flight physical. (3) Will be required to work overtime during range missions controllers.
ICTAP: Surplus/displaced Federal Civil Service employees must be rated well-qualified in order to be considered under the ICTAP programs. In order to be rated well qualified for this position, you must be rated well qualified (90/above minus veteran's preference) to be considered under ICTAP
VETERANS PERFERENCE: For information on veterans preference, please refer to the following website: http://www.opm.gov/veterans/html/vetguide.asp
MILITARY SPOUSE PERFERENCE: For information on military spouse preference, please refer to the following website: http://www.cpms.osd.mil/fas/staffing/pdf/st006.pdf.
The experience described in your resume will be evaluated and screened for the Office of Personnel Management's basic qualifications requirements, and the skills needed to perform the duties of this position as described in this vacancy announcement.
One year of experience in the same or similar work equivalent to at least the next lower grade or level requiring application of the knowledge, skills, and abilities of the position being filled.
Demonstrated work experience that equipped the applicant with the particular knowledge, skills, and abilities to successfully perform the duties of the position, and that is typically in or related to the work of the position to be filled.
Other Requirements:
Click here for more information. Must be able to obtain and maintain a Secret security clearance.
A medical examination is required.
Must comply with Drug Abuse Testing Program requirements.
Maximum entry age of 36 applies for Air Traffic Controllers.
Male applicants born after December 31, 1959 must complete a Pre-Employment Certification Statement for Selective Service Registration.
Direct Deposit of Pay is Required.
Failure to provide all of the required information as stated in the vacancy announcement may result in an ineligible rating or may affect the overall rating.
HOW YOU WILL BE EVALUATED:
Resumes will be evaluated for basic qualifications requirements and for the skills needed to perform the duties of the position, as described in this vacancy announcement and identified by the Selecting Official for the position.
i worked in an AF rapcon for two years and our officers NEVER worked traffic. they got rated during the easiest traffic times and then went straight to their desks in a building somewhere far, far from the flightline 
and also i'm sure you already know this about the armed forces, you don't get to pick where you want to go.
and also i'm sure you already know this about the armed forces, you don't get to pick where you want to go.