Cross Control Stall

minds_warped

minds_warped

New Member
My CFI single add on is coming up. Can anyone tell me what the examiner wants to see demonstrated on the cross control stall? Does he want to see a full stall or just the buffet? A full stall will put the plane into a wingover or the beginnings of a spin. I'm afraid if I do a full cross control stall that I may bust if I put the plane into a spin and were out of the utility range.
 
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A full stall will put the plane into a wingover or the beginnings of a spin.

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And not to split hairs or anything, but a wing over is completely different than a wing drop that you might get doing cross-controlled stalls.

Gotta be careful what you say when working with students, might as well get into the habit now.
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On my CFI ride, my take away version of his summary comments were that my cross-control stall should have been more abrupt and dramatic.
 
When I did my CFI initail check ride, I had to go to a complete stall...

That's sort of the purpose for the demonstration to students, so they can see how bad a stall can be if they are not coordinated and destracted (base to final overshoot), so the CFI has to be able to give a dramatic demo to the student.

Just remember to neutralize the ailerons and pick up the wing with the rudder and you'll be fine, if it does snap into a spin, then perform the spin recovery. (you should be plenty high when demonstrating this, as if you were doing spins)

And remember, if you are outside utility cat CG, Intentional spins are prohibited, but you are not trying to spin it here, so you are OK.
 
on my checkride i recovered at the buffet. i think they just want to see that you know how to cross control stall the airplane, and that you can recover abruptly from it, being that if a student ever puts you in this situatution, chances are you'll be at a low altitude. he may also ask in what type of situations this type of stall is most likely to occur. when i was asked i said "compensating for over banking with opposite rudder at low airspeed base to final." he seemed satisfied with the answer and we moved on.
 
I just put it in to a slip and then brought the nose up slowly (with the power out, preemptive PARE) until the buffet. It was pretty benign.
 
On mine I was given my choice of demonstration stalls, When I chose cross-controlled, the examiner looked at me funny (I guess most choose the secondary or elevator trim stall) and it was the only time during the ride that he appeared ready to take the controls if necessary.

I'm not particularly interested in turning it into an incipient spin, so the method I use for the demonstration is to select a road as my "runway" set up a no-flap power-off landing from a base position and perform the overshoot an "improper" correction. I recover at the first sign of an impending stall,

The student reaction is usually something like, "Wow, the nose was so low when it stalled!" so part of the lesson, even without a major wing drop, is that the nose doesn't have to be way up in the air in order for the airplane to stall.
 
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On mine I was given my choice of demonstration stalls, When I chose cross-controlled, the examiner looked at me funny (I guess most choose the secondary or elevator trim stall) and it was the only time during the ride that he appeared ready to take the controls if necessary.

I'm not particularly interested in turning it into an incipient spin, so the method I use for the demonstration is to select a road as my "runway" set up a no-flap power-off landing from a base position and perform the overshoot an "improper" correction. I recover at the first sign of an impending stall,

The student reaction is usually something like, "Wow, the nose was so low when it stalled!" so part of the lesson, even without a major wing drop, is that the nose doesn't have to be way up in the air in order for the airplane to stall.

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Yes. The old overshooting/undershooting traffic pattern final turn stall is a good one to show that stall can happen at any attitude/airspeed/configuration. The USAF harps on this one in the T-38, since that swept-wing jet neither buffets nor breaks when it stalls in the traffic pattern (or anytime). Like any swept wing, it maintains attitude, but just sinks like rock. Final turn, that sink can go easily unnoticed until it's too late in the game, altitude-wise as well as power curve-wise. Additionally, since you're already in a large sink and so close to the ground, more often than not, you're already out of the safe ejection envelope too.
 
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The USAF harps on this one in the T-38, since that swept-wing jet neither buffets nor breaks when it stalls in the traffic pattern (or anytime). Like any swept wing, it maintains attitude, but just sinks like rock.

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Do you know why there is no buffet? That's interesting because buffeting airflow is the reason for a stall. Also, what kind of stall protection does the T-38 have?
 
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I just put it in to a slip and then brought the nose up slowly (with the power out, preemptive PARE) until the buffet. It was pretty benign.

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no go try it in a skidding turn. THATS where the cross-control stall becomes a learning lesson
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The USAF harps on this one in the T-38, since that swept-wing jet neither buffets nor breaks when it stalls in the traffic pattern (or anytime). Like any swept wing, it maintains attitude, but just sinks like rock.

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Do you know why there is no buffet? That's interesting because buffeting airflow is the reason for a stall. Also, what kind of stall protection does the T-38 have?

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To clarify, there isn't a full-up buffet, or build-up to a buffet that you'd "feel" on a straight wing airplane, prior to the stall "break". There's only a mild stick agitation with a very light buffet that can easily be mistaken for light turbulence. You fly the jet around the final turn within this light buffet, all the while being cognizant of the sink rate. The aircraft will begin shaking more as the wing gets closer to critical AOA and beyond.
 
If you bank the airplane <15 while gently reducing power and applying backpressure a C172 will stall like in a power off stall configuration. Pretty easy and uneventful.

Our DE looks for max 15 bank. If you put it in a steep turn you might get the a wing drop and a subsequent spiral.
 
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