Crash?

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I'm trying to figure out why in the world he was doing a night cross country flight at 2 in the morning? Having graduated from the Vincennes University aviation program and currently finishing a masters in aviation at Purdue I know neither school has students out that late flying. Fatigue is very dangerous and flying that late, especially as a training flight, is just plain dumb.

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Just the fact that sunset is pretty damn late here in ND. And the fact that it was a long x-country flying a slow Warrior wouldn't have gotten him any earlier to the airport man...
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I'm trying to figure out why in the world he was doing a night cross country flight at 2 in the morning? Having graduated from the Vincennes University aviation program and currently finishing a masters in aviation at Purdue I know neither school has students out that late flying. Fatigue is very dangerous and flying that late, especially as a training flight, is just plain dumb.

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Pretty easy, it's called night time and it is required in our commercial course. It starts to get really light around 4:30 am and really dark at 10:30. So we have a 6 hour window to do a few hours of night cross country that is required for the 221 course.
 
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Fatigue is very dangerous and flying that late, especially as a training flight, is just plain dumb.

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Bull$hit.

Over half of my flight time is at night. Flying at night requires alot of attention and very careful planning. That being said, it can be done safely, just as single pilot IFR can.

Now, you can't wake up at 0500, work all day, study until 2300 and then expect to safely go and fly at 0100. You're playing with fire.

I used to fly routinely at 2300-0500. Summertime in NC can do that do you.
 
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Flying at night requires alot of attention and very careful planning. That being said, it can be done safely, just as single pilot IFR can.

Now, you can't wake up at 0500, work all day, study until 2300 and then expect to safely go and fly at 0100. You're playing with fire.


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Agreed. Even my very limited night flying experience has proved that night flying can be great, it just take more care in planning. The work load of flying at night increases so you have to stay sharp. If that means sleeping in the morning of the night flight so you can be alert at 2am, thats what you have to do. I dont see it as unsafe if the proper precautions are taken.

I love flying at night. The air is smoother and everything looks different at night.
 
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I love flying at night. The air is smoother and everything looks different at night.

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Oh, man - it's the best time to fly, period!! Most people don't do it, therefore they believe it can't be done. Many university aviation programs discourage things like that. It's unfortunate.
 
Agreed flying at night can be safe and many colleges do discourage night flying outside the pattern (Purdue being one of them). I had plenty of night cross countries at VU and they can be safe. A few points brought against my statement I don't agree with though.

[It starts to get really light around 4:30 am and really dark at 10:30]

Last I checked the FAR's don't use really light and really dark as definitions as night.

[If that means sleeping in the morning of the night flight so you can be alert at 2am]

Just because you sleep in doesn't mean you won't be tired at 2 am. Circadian rhythm is fairly standard and any Part 121 or corporate operator has specific rules regarding operations within this 2 am to 6 am "window". Something the flight schools we attend may want to pay attention to. Often times the rigorous schedules of being a student cause us to get up early work all day and stay up late into the night. Along with the pressure to get your flight time done can cause even the best intentioned indivual to do something unsafe.

Many flight schools say they will train you to be ready to fly for the airlines or for corporates. They claim they have the most advanced cockpits available in trainer a/c, best instructors, etc. Maybe they should start looking at the procedures used in those fields they are training the students for and adopt them. It's unfortunate the accident happened, lets just hope the schools can use this event in a positive manner.
 
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Many flight schools say they will train you to be ready to fly for the airlines or for corporates. They claim they have the most advanced cockpits available in trainer a/c, best instructors, etc. Maybe they should start looking at the procedures used in those fields they are training the students for and adopt them.

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And what about being prepared for jobs in the 135 world? What about operators like Flight Express and Airnet Systems? Let's be real, sometimes you've gotta operate in the middle of the night.

Regarding circadian rhythms and night flying - well, it can make it more difficult. As can spatial disorientation in the clouds. Does that mean we shouldn't fly in the clouds??
 
While I stand behind my earlier comments I do need to raise one other point. It seems some of us (myself included) have jumped to the conclusion that it was pilot error. For all we know it was a mechanical failure and he made the best of the situation he was in. I'm probably most at blame for this, especially since just 3 months ago a study I did was published in the WSJ showing that many a lot more Part 121 crashes could be attributed to poor maintenance and not pilot error. One of the biggest things we study in safety is to not jump to conclusions and wait till the facts are in to come to a verdict on an event. My apologies for propagating the pilot error blame.
 
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And what about being prepared for jobs in the 135 world? What about operators like Flight Express and Airnet Systems? Let's be real, sometimes you've gotta operate in the middle of the night.


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??
 
Even though we probably shouldn't be speculating, there is enough information out there to make a few "educated speculations."

So here's my propogation for the day...

I Doubt it was engine failure. He was probably cruising somewhere around 4500, PLENTY of altitude to get a radio call out to Fargo approach, and set up for a forced landing. None of that happened. Furthermore, a power-off landing in this region should not result in a totaled aircraft, even if it was at night. He would have had plenty of battery to power the landing and recog lights to make a decent forced landing.
 
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