CPS FA's vote for strike authorization.

[Krystal]

How does that work, etiquette-wise? I know if FAs are striking, and an FA crosses the line of his own members to work, thats bad. But does the same thing with regards to an FA strike apply to, say, a mechanic; who (assuming is union) his own union isn't striking? Or if, by some chance, some position person who doesn't have a union, and goes to work? Are those people considered to be "crossing a line"; even though it's not a line thats theirs and they're not working the struck work; just working their own completely separate jobs?

EDIT: I think Todd answered already...

But to add......do other unions respect the strike of the union who is striking? If FAs strike, do mechanics not go to work either out of support?

I dont know. Alot of the people who would be on the picket lines are my close friends and people I once used to fly the line with. I think they know that I support them (I still wear an AFA pin and carry and AFA bag tag, until CPS FA's get their contract) but if they happen to be picketing outside of my office, its going to be rough to just walk past them.

 

[Boris Badenov]

If you're not under a CBA, you have nothing to worry about.

Well, I mean, other than going out of business, I guess.

 

[MQAAord]

Yea, I wouldn't be surprised if you don't get a call in the next few weeks offering a quick qal recall. Word is 900 AA FAs punched out in one day last week and AA is trying to get the Feds to let them quick qal the recalls.

I believe her recall rights expired long ago, if Im not mistaken.

Mike is right, my recall rights are long expired.

My 2nd furlough was official on 15 OCT 2002. When I was furloughed we had 5 year recall rights. I expired and was removed from the AA F/A seniority list effective 15 OCT 2007. So unless the company is willing to go back and put us back on the list, there will be no recall for me. Ever.

 

[WacoFan]

I dont know. Alot of the people who would be on the picket lines are my close friends and people I once used to fly the line with. I think they know that I support them (I still wear an AFA pin and carry and AFA bag tag, until CPS FA's get their contract) but if they happen to be picketing outside of my office, its going to be rough to just walk past them.

So, on your way into work leave a little early and take them a couple dozen donuts or even just stop by and let them know you support them. I think they would appreciate it and you could assuage any feelings of guilt you might have.

 

[WestIndian425]

Mike is right, my recall rights are long expired.

My 2nd furlough was official on 15 OCT 2002. When I was furloughed we had 5 year recall rights. I expired and was removed from the AA F/A seniority list effective 15 OCT 2007. So unless the company is willing to go back and put us back on the list, there will be no recall for me. Ever.

Well it sucks that we won't get to see you in an FA uniform.

 

[Vector4Food]

How does that work, etiquette-wise? I know if FAs are striking, and an FA crosses the line of his own members to work, thats bad. But does the same thing with regards to an FA strike apply to, say, a mechanic; who (assuming is union) his own union isn't striking? Or if, by some chance, some position person who doesn't have a union, and goes to work? Are those people considered to be "crossing a line"; even though it's not a line thats theirs and they're not working the struck work; just working their own completely separate jobs?

EDIT: I think Todd answered already...

But to add......do other unions respect the strike of the union who is striking? If FAs strike, do mechanics not go to work either out of support?

I know in this part of the world Mike, unless it was an individual effort, if a non-striking union didnt go to work to support another union, that's illegal job action, in Canada that's up to a $1,000/day fine plus jail time for national and local union leaders.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

But to add......do other unions respect the strike of the union who is striking? If FAs strike, do mechanics not go to work either out of support?

It is legal in the United States to engage in sympathy strikes under the RLA (not the NRLA, though), so other unions can strike to honor the picket lines. Many people don't realize it, but the pilot strike at EAL was actually a sympathy strike with the IAM, who represented the mechanics. However, it's incredibly rare.

 

[MikeD]

It is legal in the United States to engage in sympathy strikes under the RLA (not the NRLA, though), so other unions can strike to honor the picket lines. Many people don't realize it, but the pilot strike at EAL was actually a sympathy strike with the IAM, who represented the mechanics. However, it's incredibly rare.

I do remember that about EAL, that it was the mechs who were actually on strike. Now, the pilots who went on the sympathy strike, crossing that line was still considered scabbing even though it wasn't an official strike by the pilots?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I do remember that about EAL, that it was the mechs who were actually on strike. Now, the pilots who went on the sympathy strike, crossing that line was still considered scabbing even though it wasn't an official strike by the pilots?

Well, it was an official strike by the pilots, it was just a sympathy strike instead of a primary strike. There was an official vote before the strike, which was ratified in big numbers.

 

[MikeD]

Well, it was an official strike by the pilots, it was just a sympathy strike instead of a primary strike. There was an official vote before the strike, which was ratified in big numbers.

Ok, that makes sense then.

 

[WacoFan]

OK...help me understand ATN_Pilot...

I do understand that getting the release to strike is an arduous undertaking - get that completely. Now, I also knew the story about the EAL sympathy strike too. What I am not understanding is how, when it is your own union and your own issues, it is so difficult to strike...yet if it is another union, you are good to go. And, if this is the case - then it would be incredibly effective as a tool for all labor - so why isn't it employed more often. It would seem to be the closest strategy to a wildcat strike (truly the most effective kind of strike in my opinion) - so why doesn't this happen more, or is it just so rare that airline unions unions of any kind get released to strike that it doesn't come up much?

 

[BobDDuck]

Waco, look at the associated timeline. When EAL did a sympathy strike, it was pretty easy to get released for your own primary strike as well. Under the current labor situation, even as it is beginning to swing the other way, it would be pretty much impossible to get released for a sympathy strike.

 

[WacoFan]

Waco, look at the associated timeline. When EAL did a sympathy strike, it was pretty easy to get released for your own primary strike as well. Under the current labor situation, even as it is beginning to swing the other way, it would be pretty much impossible to get released for a sympathy strike.

Yeah...but that was 1989...assuming that after eight years of Reagan appointees on the NLRB following by Bush 41 - would think it would be MORE difficult.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Waco, look at the associated timeline. When EAL did a sympathy strike, it was pretty easy to get released for your own primary strike as well. Under the current labor situation, even as it is beginning to swing the other way, it would be pretty much impossible to get released for a sympathy strike.

You don't need a release for a sympathy strike. If the other employee group got a release, then you're good to go.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

OK...help me understand ATN_Pilot...

I do understand that getting the release to strike is an arduous undertaking - get that completely. Now, I also knew the story about the EAL sympathy strike too. What I am not understanding is how, when it is your own union and your own issues, it is so difficult to strike...yet if it is another union, you are good to go. And, if this is the case - then it would be incredibly effective as a tool for all labor - so why isn't it employed more often. It would seem to be the closest strategy to a wildcat strike (truly the most effective kind of strike in my opinion) - so why doesn't this happen more, or is it just so rare that airline unions unions of any kind get released to strike that it doesn't come up much?

Three reasons:

1. A release at all, even for one employee group, is already incredibly rare in this industry. So there just aren't a whole lot of opportunities to use that strategy.

2. When a release does come, in many cases, the other employee group feels that the timing is horrible. For example, when AMFA struck NWA a number of years ago, it was during the bankruptcy era. ALPA told AMFA that they were insane to be trying a strike during such conditions, but AMFA wouldn't listen. So ALPA certainly wasn't going to go along with it. The destruction of the airline would have been a likely outcome under such economic conditions.

3. Although the RLA contains no prohibition on sympathy strikes, and the legal consensus is that they're legal, there is always some question on the legality until the issue has been challenged in court and rulings have been made to uphold it. So far, no management group has ever challenged the legality of a sympathy strike, so the consensus stands that it's legal. But that means there is still some uncertainty on the legality if some management team did decide to challenge it.

 

[WacoFan]

Three reasons:

1. A release at all, even for one employee group, is already incredibly rare in this industry. So there just aren't a whole lot of opportunities to use that strategy.

2. When a release does come, in many cases, the other employee group feels that the timing is horrible. For example, when AMFA struck NWA a number of years ago, it was during the bankruptcy era. ALPA told AMFA that they were insane to be trying a strike during such conditions, but AMFA wouldn't listen. So ALPA certainly wasn't going to go along with it. The destruction of the airline would have been a likely outcome under such economic conditions.

3. Although the RLA contains no prohibition on sympathy strikes, and the legal consensus is that they're legal, there is always some question on the legality until the issue has been challenged in court and rulings have been made to uphold it. So far, no management group has ever challenged the legality of a sympathy strike, so the consensus stands that it's legal. But that means there is still some uncertainty on the legality if some management team did decide to challenge it.

Thanks for the info.

 

[BobDDuck]

You don't need a release for a sympathy strike. If the other employee group got a release, then you're good to go.

Yeah... I didn't phrase that correctly. I meant under the current labor situation it is difficult to get released for a primary strike, something it wasn't difficult to do (well, as difficult) back then.

It DOES take a strike vote from the work group to participate in a sympathy strike though.

 

[MQAAord]

Somewhere in the basement in all my Eagle "stuff" I've got my HI6 printout of the email sent about the AA strike-that-didn't-happen back in '97. There was a HUGE combobulated contingency plan for what we would do if/when a strike happened. Eagle had gone to the trouble to come up with an individual plan for EVERY airplane & the crews on overnights with it. The crews would all meet together at the outstations, fly around dropping everyone off at their home airports, then crews who lived local would bring the planes back to the hub cities where they'd sit at the hangar. Really, Eagle? REALLY?! We were going to spend the gas money to fly around to roughly 4 different cities per airplane to drop people off? Haha! I chuckled at the plan, and figured we were all in for one helluva cluster if it actually happened.