Counseling? Confidant?

BaronPete

BaronPete

Jaw Harp Troubadour
A few comments before I start:

1) I'm not a commercial pilot.
2) I'm not depressed.
3) I'm married without children.

I realize this may be an awkward time to bring up such questions with the Germanwings tragedy, but what options does one have regarding family counseling without jepordizing their medical? Counseling may not even be the right word. As I mentioned above, I'm not depressed, but have been having some thoughts on the current trajectory of my marriage and how it intertwines with career and life ambitions.

The seemingly obvious answer would be marriage counseling, but I haven't pulled that trigger yet. My primary concern is that my wife, who I DO consider to be my best friend, and I seem to have differing paths on how we want to pursue our lives. We've been together for 7 years and married for nearly 4. I read somewhere once that the three biggest causes for divorce are money, kids and religion. I fully believe that people continue to grow as they age and life experiences shape them and I feel like I'm growing apart from her or, at the very least, will be responsible for her being unable to fulfill her goals.

She wants kids; I don't (yet, at least)
She wants to pursue certain lifestyles; I don't. (Several layers to this onion)
She needs XYZ to pursue her career; those aren't conducive for my reaching my career goals.

She's been extremely supportive of my flying ambitions and the financial strain that it can cause. I guess what I'm most worried about is dragging her along while I pursue a career only to end up ruining her own right to pursue happiness.

I hate that we didn't talk about these sorts of things more when we dated, but how often does that happen? "I'm in love with you, but the rational decision based on XYZ is for us to cut ties right now. Kthxbye."

I'm not looking for an "out" and I suppose this can come off as selfish, but I mostly just want to get it off my chest and say it outloud without some doc trying to prescribe someone Prozac. Parents are usually great for advice, but they'd just worry. Sadly, I don't have a truly close friend these days that I would lay this stuff out for (other than my wife).

Lastly, I realize it's unfair to keep these types of things away from your partner, but I do fully intend to involve her in my feelings when I get them straight.

Thanks for reading?
 
Psychologists don't prescribe medications, that is the realm of Psychiatrists so if you just want to talk to someone for some counseling or whatever then go see a Psychologist for couple's counseling or something. If you want to go that route, I'm certain that you could find one pretty easily wherever you are. I see no harm in just talking to someone to help you work through life's problems, that's what they're there for. They can give you tools and maybe help you see things from a different perspective or possibly offer up something you hadn't thought of.

If you don't have some kind of underlying problem, like depression or some other diagnosable condition, I don't think it would be much more than just talking with someone for an while a couple times a week or whatever until you don't feel the need to do it anymore. If it's just relationship troubles and you're temporarily down in the dumps, I'm sure you could find someone to help. I'm no psychologist, but I know there's very specific criteria for diagnosing something like depression if that's what you're worried they might think, and if you're just temporarily upset due to some life issues, it probably doesn't meet those criteria so wouldn't result in that diagnosis and probably wouldn't affect your medical or even need to be reported when you apply for a medical.

If you're that worried about it, pay cash and don't tell them you're a pilot. I personally think it's better for you to seek help if it's needed than to just ignore the problem.

PM me if you like, I know some people in that field and could probably get you a more educated answer if you need it.
 
Hey, thanks for the post. Part of it just kind felt good to write it down, you know? Anyway, I don't feel down in the dumps or anything, just concerned that I could see potential issues with the marriage further down the road that could affect her happiness, etc. etc. We've talked since my original post and she's assured me that she's in for the ride come what may. It was great to confirm that we're on the same page.

That was the biggest original question, though. Can a couple go see a counseler or something without getting painted into some corner of over zealous diagnosis. It's our responsibility to ensure that we're of sound mind and body to conduct our craft, but at the same time, we live in a age where it's easier to give a pill than to exercise, communicate feelings, reduce stressors, etc.
 
I'm glad to hear that your wife is committed to getting through whatever issues may come up, that's got to be a huge plus no matter how you look at things.

It is obviously up to you guys to decide if counseling is right for you. As I said before, a psychologist cannot prescribe medication and they typically are big proponents of finding ways to work through things without going down that road. I think that is a common misconception regarding the field, everyone associates them with the psychiatrists in the movies that dope people up on medications until they're zombies and then lock them up in the looney bin but that's just not how things are. We've got plenty of those kind of public misconceptions going on in our field as well. I tell someone I'm a pilot and they immediately think that I'm an airline pilot making $200K a year, same idea I suppose.

In the unlikely event that a psychologist in marriage counseling determined that medications might be helpful, they would have to refer you to a medical doctor or psychiatrist who would have to be the one to diagnose and prescribe the medications but that would probably be a somewhat rare and extreme case where they thought that you might have some more serious psychological condition. Otherwise, I think in the vast majority of cases they just try to sort of facilitate a discussion and help you work through any issues.

The mental health field is unfortunately very underutilized and misunderstood. I know a number of psychology doctoral students and licensed psychologists who by and large are all just normal people who want to help others. If you go see someone and don't think it's for you, then just don't go back or maybe try someone else. You really shouldn't be concerned about jeopardizing your career by going to marriage counseling if you feel that might help your marriage.
 
BaronPete said:
I'm not depressed, but have been having some thoughts on the current trajectory of my marriage and how it intertwines with career and life ambitions.

She wants kids; I don't (yet, at least)
She wants to pursue certain lifestyles; I don't. (Several layers to this onion)
She needs XYZ to pursue her career; those aren't conducive for my reaching my career goals.


Lastly, I realize it's unfair to keep these types of things away from your partner, but I do fully intend to involve her in my feelings when I get them straight.

Thanks for reading?
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Let me preface this response by saying that I'm not responding to the OP per se. This is more directed to those that may follow and are facing these questions themselves:

To put it succinctly, the OP and his wife do not appear to be a match. Just based on what is written here, they seem to have different priorities and different goals in just about every major aspect of life. You can compromise on things like split-level or ranch, SUV or mini-van, but when it comes to where/how to live, what to do, and kids or not, you absolutely, positively have to be in sync. If you're not, there's going to be sadness and tears, and more than likely, they'll come from your children.

The OP talks about sharing his feelings with his wife. It's a nice-sounding sentimental thought, but what really needs to happen is to share your THOUGHTS with your SO, because acting on feelings alone will lead to problems. There have been many times in my life where acting on emotion caused me difficulty. Love (a feeling) is essential to a happy marriage, but it's not sufficient. You need more than just love. You need commonality of purpose. Marriage is about walking the same path with someone. You can differ on the route, but you have to agree on the destination.
 
Flying Saluki said:
Let me preface this response by saying that I'm not responding to the OP per se. This is more directed to those that may follow and are facing these questions themselves:

To put it succinctly, the OP and his wife do not appear to be a match. Just based on what is written here, they seem to have different priorities and different goals in just about every major aspect of life. You can compromise on things like split-level or ranch, SUV or mini-van, but when it comes to where/how to live, what to do, and kids or not, you absolutely, positively have to be in sync. If you're not, there's going to be sadness and tears, and more than likely, they'll come from your children.

The OP talks about sharing his feelings with his wife. It's a nice-sounding sentimental thought, but what really needs to happen is to share your THOUGHTS with your SO, because acting on feelings alone will lead to problems. There have been many times in my life where acting on emotion caused me difficulty. Love (a feeling) is essential to a happy marriage, but it's not sufficient. You need more than just love. You need commonality of purpose. Marriage is about walking the same path with someone. You can differ on the route, but you have to agree on the destination.
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Yeah. Not really about the OP, but all about the OP. :sarcasm:

@BaronPete, bear in mind that that a professional who actually knew what he was talking about would never say this (or for that matter anything other than "see a professional not SGOTI") in response to a post like yours without talking directly with at least one of the people involved.
 
@MidlifeFlyer Understood. For the record, I'd never just act on what a few random people on the internet had to say regarding something as serious as my marriage. I just thought it would actually have some relevence on JetCareers as opposed to the fantasy baseball league forum or whatever. :)

Thanks to everyone for their responses, though.
 
BaronPete said:
@MidlifeFlyer Understood. For the record, I'd never just act on what a few random people on the internet had to say regarding something as serious as my marriage. I just thought it would actually have some relevence on JetCareers as opposed to the fantasy baseball league forum or whatever. :)

Thanks to everyone for their responses, though.
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I do realize that you are just asking in a group that may have had the same issues. That makes sense. It was just that one post that hit me the wrong way.

But these issues come up for various reasons in marriages. As my wife said in front of all of our friends when we renewed our vows at our tenth anniversary party, "Thank you for the seven best years of my life."

In terms of the specific, what can I do that won;t affect my medical," that would be a good question for Dr. Forred in the AME forum or for Bruce Chien anonymously if you have access to the AOPA member forum.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
I do realize that you are just asking in a group that may have had the same issues. That makes sense. It was just that one post that hit me the wrong way.

But these issues come up for various reasons in marriages. As my wife said in front of all of our friends when we renewed our vows at our tenth anniversary party, "Thank you for the seven best years of my life."

In terms of the specific, what can I do that won;t affect my medical," that would be a good question for Dr. Forred in the AME forum or for Bruce Chien anonymously if you have access to the AOPA member forum.
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Haha, that's a great way of putting it. In a sense, I'm looking to cram those 3-4 years in the middle of our first 10 instead of at the beginning.

I understand what you mean about the above post, but I took it in the spirit that I think he intended. I never wanted a dozen replies saying "It'll pass; marriages always succeed!" kinda thing.

The biggest understanding we've come to as man and wife is that both things that we want require investment of both time and money. I realize now that she's comfortable waiting on her graduate level studies until I make or break this career change. As for children, it's one of those deals where she sometimes wants a kid until we see one at a restaurant or a movie theater. It'll happen or it won't, but won't define our marriage one way or the other.

I'm just going to be at peace with the fact that she's being upfront about all of that. If that's not the actual case, then I've done my part by voicing my concerns. No reason to doubt her at this point.

Thanks again for taking the time. As I said earlier, close friends and confidants can be hard to come by once you get older and out of school, etc. I appreciate this community for what it is.
 
Regarding your concerns about marriage counseling having any impact on your medical, I'm posting a quote from the FAA's Guide for AMEs below.

Please don't let concerns over your medical prevent you from seeking counseling. It's not reportable. I've been down a similar path. I wish you luck and happiness.

Applicant History
Item 19. Visits to Health Professional Within Last 3 Years
The applicant should list all visits in the last 3 years to a physician, physician assistant, nurse practitioner, psychologist, clinical social worker, or substance abuse specialist for treatment, examination, or medical/mental evaluation. The applicant should list visits for counseling only if related to a personal substance abuse or psychiatric condition.
 
Based on my experience, I highly recommend marriage counseling for any married person, whether you're having problems now or not.
 
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Yeah my wife and I did it for a few months, ironically before maybe the most stressful 3-4 years of our marriage, and not only did it have no relevance or impact to my career, but it was also paid for by my health insurance policy, and it helped us deal with some problems that certainly would have reared their heads later on if we hadn't worked through them then. There isn't anything taboo or to be ashamed of with marriage counseling. It doesn't mean you are doomed, and it shouldn't mean you all three in the towel. I'd highly recommend, as long as you can find someone who you are both comfortable with. Our experience was nothing like the movies where the female counselor sides with the wife and it becomes a husband beat down. She was super neutral and just asked questions that got us talking about the right things. Hopefully that helps, again it isn't anything to be ashamed of
 
If I might put my 0.02 cents in....

There's one thing I've learned about life....and it's that it changes. it's constantly changing...your the yin in her yang....and vice versa...and that "living life together" wavelength changes everyday....you have common interests one year, then the next you don't....you dream the same dreams one year, and then another year she might form different dreams from your own and you might form different hobby likes than she etc etc....but it's constant change.

They say when you're pursuing a career, it's a changing dynamic where you want to be ahead of the game as much as you can and many leaders will recommend career coaching.

Now a days, we have life coaches...someone we go to to discuss how we can take two ever changing lives that are within one household and make them work for all intents and purposes...to last longer than the average bear lifespan.

Personally, I think marital counseling is for when you're just not succinct in communication with your loved one, when you just can't get on that same wavelength and need a partial party to try to gain momentum in commingling communication to emotional wellbeing. Marital counseling will help you get back on track IFF (if and only if) you take what the counselor says seriously and apply it not only once but on a daily basis.

Like in finances, when you need to direct your funds into the right retirement arena, you talk to a financial planner.....when you need to work on the here and now, get the basics succinct like budgeting within the family, you talk to a fiscal planner. The two are different and they work in different realms.

SO, my suggestion is to talk to a Life Coach before talking to a marriage counselor. It's not so much that your marriage is in trouble, it's that you have your passions, she has her passions and somehow you need to manipulate two lives, two passions into one union and you need someone who can help you "plan" and work on making both of your lives passionate to where you both share, grown and enjoy each others life passions, if you know what i mean.

I think it's very courageous to come onto the board with this conundrum...a lot of marriages end up being so lopsided that only one in the marriage gets to really realize and see their passions come to fruition while the other has to "wait", which honestly, isn't "fair" an even though we know life is not ever fair, we all want to be able to realize our own dreams, our own passions yet support our favorite people with theirs as well. So I applaud you on wanting to work on this and in realizing that she too has passions she wants to accomplish in this life.

As far as the "kids" aspect goes, you said "yet" in your statement, so you're not entirely off board with having children...which is good. However, if you were adamant about not having children, that's one of those life deal breakers where in the end, it may be best to go separate ways because as time goes on, resentments will build and biological clock time is always ticking. It wouldn't be fair to someone that really wants to have children. As far as lifestyle and career, that's something that can be worked through...with a coach.

I have never used a coach but I have certainly thought of it. I know a few people who have made monumental strides through life and career coaches!

HTH :)
 
Kristie said:
There's one thing I've learned about life....and it's that it changes. it's constantly changing...your the yin in her yang....and vice versa...and that "living life together" wavelength changes everyday....you have common interests one year, then the next you don't....you dream the same dreams one year, and then another year she might form different dreams from your own and you might form different hobby likes than she etc etc....but it's constant change.
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Good insights. Makes me think that the concept of marriage that I learned from my parents is not realistic.

If a person and his/her significant other are in sync now but will soon be out of sync, aren't they setting themselves up for essentially endless discord and unhappiness if they make a lifelong commitment by getting married? Wouldn't it be more pragmatic to be honest with one another and say "It's great being together. Let's stay together for as long as our goals, dreams, etc. are aligned. And if we find that we want to take different directions in life that's OK: we can part friends, with lots of good memories, and pursue our goals independently."
 
I can guarantee you the concept of marriage that I have learned was most certainly not realistic.

Life itself is an endless discord, don't you think? You never know *when* you're going to be out of sync with your significant other. That doesn't mean continual unhappiness. It means having to stay open minded, being able to sway from this way to that way as easy as a sailboat dips and turns in the water based on the wind....sometimes it means having to gain understanding and acceptance of some value you might not agree with and it most definitely means that you have to grow independently as well as as a together as a well communicated team. Marriage is about repopulating with a support umbrella, having a "cult" per se of your own, who technically should appreciate you unconditionally but really never will without conditions, and most importantly having that long term companionship and someone to call the shots when you physically or mentally need help.

That's why you hear most long term husband/wife teams say "if you're going to marry someone, make sure you marry your very best friend" because when things go haywire in the "marriage", you can in the least take the "husband/wife" out of it and fall back on friendship over all else.

So yea, if you find, through conversation with your mate (that's very important...the conversing WITH the mate before life changing decisions are made), you want to take entirely different directions in life, or your values and their values no longer mesh and acceptance just can't be gained and you already know you're just not going to be able to stay in sync with each others life goals/passions then you should be able to move along as a couple with understanding and acceptance in entirety....it's the "in entirety" that some couples never achieve which is where the divorce discord and fight comes into play IMO.

Question is....who or what dictates "for as long as" in your post when it comes to staying together "for as long as" our dreams/goals/etc are aligned? When is that position reached because dreams, goals, passions all happen at different times in different peoples lives...is it so you get your dream and they have to wait on theirs, she gets hers and you have to wait on yours or is it you both try to gain your dreams together at the same time because in some or most cases, time and money, don't allow for both to attain dreams at the same time.

However, if someone is going to live their life like "lets stay together *as long as*", then they really aren't a proponent for long term relationships. They're already putting a cap on an "end in sight". Who's to say if today's fight about some stupid little thing might be tomorrows "I'm moving out" with that. Everything is very up in the air at that point. If that's the case, it just needs to be understood amongst all team members.

I do like the idea of having a "family discussion" and giving the ol' commitment contract a heave ho every 10 years to revise, update, create new goals for the life plan you have with your spouse because life can change so much within a 10 year time frame. It's like updating any type of general plan or strategy plan out in the working world, only there's no public hearing. HAHA
 
I'm all for counseling. Sometimes you need someone to talk to, an unbiased third party. Not sure if it would help your situation, but for my wife and I we had a full Myers Briggs Type Indicator assessment done. Our Pastor at the time was a certified MBTI coach, and it was a great help in learning how each other ticks, and how to present information to each other, based on our "new" understanding of how we receive info, etc. This was maybe 7 years ago, and we still use it to this day. At a minimum, go get some professional help. Let's say it theoretically "could" jeopardize your medical, if it were me, I know my marriage would be worth it. In this case, talk to someone, see what happens from there.

Good luck man!
 
obx said:
Regarding your concerns about marriage counseling having any impact on your medical, I'm posting a quote from the FAA's Guide for AMEs below.

Please don't let concerns over your medical prevent you from seeking counseling. It's not reportable. I've been down a similar path. I wish you luck and happiness.

Applicant History
Item 19. Visits to Health Professional Within Last 3 Years
The applicant should list all visits in the last 3 years to a physician, physician assistant, nurse practitioner, psychologist, clinical social worker, or substance abuse specialist for treatment, examination, or medical/mental evaluation. The applicant should list visits for counseling only if related to a personal substance abuse or psychiatric condition.
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That's...that's really good to know, thanks.
 
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