ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
This makes it sound like busy-work for the sake of busy-work. This sounds like it is bad for the institution as a whole.
Cost of operating Military planes
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This makes it sound like busy-work for the sake of busy-work. This sounds like it is bad for the institution as a whole.
milleR
Well-Known Member
I believe you just found one of the subdefinitions of "bureaucracy"
hook_dupin
Well-Known Member
In some ways, training units can be worse. For example, in the command responsible for all the training, those 25 and younger (regardless of rank) are required to submit a safety form anytime they go on leave (this is separate from a leave form -which must already have been accomplished to initiate this process). Supervisors must then give a safety brief based on this form. It gets especially comical in pilot training units: we trust young Lts to take multi million dollar aircraft alone and let them enter spins, but we do not trust them to safely get from Texas to Arizona.
I have plenty enough "meaningful work" to keep me busy for 12-14 hours a day. I'm not getting that done due to the queep.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
That's exactly why you see so many experienced USAF pilots heading for the doors...it isn't sustainable if you also want to have some kind of life outside work. It is a highly, highly competitive environment for jobs, assignments, and promotions, and the job will take and take and take everything that you give it.
Since the military is supposed to be a meritocracy, which unfortunately is measured by subjective means, impressing your leadership is the only way to get ahead. The metrics that AF leadership uses to determine rankings for promotions unfortunately encourages this kind of workaholic rat-race.
Lots of guys get burned out about 5 years in (generally on their second assignment) after the shiny newness wears off and guys realize that even this job is just a job. Many guys decide that they're not interested in moving up the ladder, but unfortunately the military is a "move up or get out" proposition. Pilots who aren't trying to climb up to the next rank are generally sidelined and sometimes moved to jobs out of the cockpit.
It is quite a mess, but unfortunately one that won't be solved any time soon. There's still a long line of guys busting down the doors to get into pilot training....
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Pages 5 and 6 are epic gold.
I am sad to even acknowledge my service to some folks, especially to acknowledge the 1W community because it has become one embarrassing queep machine that feeds on a diet of queep-bees attempting to manage problems that do not, and never will, exist.
One of many reasons folks in non-rated positions in the Air Force are also running for the doors, even into the open arms of other services. The catch? Taking the risk that the queep won't be as bad on the other side.
If only you, and every one else for that matter, knew...
A sad institution the Air Force, it would appear as a whole, has become. I figured other communities had their own unique issues, but clearly even dudes that get to strap on sweet-ass jets for a living enjoy the same disastrous garbage those of us that strap on a forecast desk get to deal with. Or for that matter a guard shack, or gym floor, or dental swivel chair, you get the idea. Absolutely, hands down, one of the very reasons I left active duty when I did and absolutely, hands down, one of the very reasons I am attempting to escape the Air Force fraternity all together.
Get all those annual CBTs done again this year boys? Nuh-uh...better get that Cyber Awareness training complete before you go red and get put on the Group or Wing Commander's naughty list. I could go on forever but my stories are not nearly as entertaining as @Hacker15e or @MikeD.
I am sad to even acknowledge my service to some folks, especially to acknowledge the 1W community because it has become one embarrassing queep machine that feeds on a diet of queep-bees attempting to manage problems that do not, and never will, exist.
One of many reasons folks in non-rated positions in the Air Force are also running for the doors, even into the open arms of other services. The catch? Taking the risk that the queep won't be as bad on the other side.
If only you, and every one else for that matter, knew...
A sad institution the Air Force, it would appear as a whole, has become. I figured other communities had their own unique issues, but clearly even dudes that get to strap on sweet-ass jets for a living enjoy the same disastrous garbage those of us that strap on a forecast desk get to deal with. Or for that matter a guard shack, or gym floor, or dental swivel chair, you get the idea. Absolutely, hands down, one of the very reasons I left active duty when I did and absolutely, hands down, one of the very reasons I am attempting to escape the Air Force fraternity all together.
Get all those annual CBTs done again this year boys? Nuh-uh...better get that Cyber Awareness training complete before you go red and get put on the Group or Wing Commander's naughty list. I could go on forever but my stories are not nearly as entertaining as @Hacker15e or @MikeD.
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You don't get burned out of that?
Hacker, how did you manage to make it 20? I was talking to a Viper driver at Aviano who said in the early 2000's when he wasn't flying it was a normal 8 hour day.
Is the Navy that bad?
hook_dupin
Well-Known Member
Hope.
For all the queep, I've gotten to do some really really amazing things and fly some really cool machines. I have the hope that I'll still get to do a few more amazing things.
Example: Here's a shot I took of Kennedy Space Center while executing a test flight.
Here's another of both @Hacker15e and the Grand Canyon. I'm not sure which is older.
I have no idea what category and class this contraption is in. Regardless, I've logged time in it.
It's been a good ride. I'm working to remove the queep where I can.
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Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Well, I hate to say it, but...for all that it absolutely sucks ass, for all of the incompetence, mind-bending, skull-grinding, work and idiocy, for all of the risks, for all of the time spent away from home and family, for all the stress, for all the headaches and heartaches (I could go on for an entire page with these...you guys get my drift on the magnitude and depth of the suck).
For all that, as Hook said, there is simply no other job on earth that allows me to do the things that I've been able to do in the USAF. Those unique experiences have ultimately been what has made it worthwhile over that time, even in light of all of those crappy points.
A couple months ago there was a great thread of guys bitching about how much it sucks to go through the grind of working at crappy flying jobs while moving up the ladder toward the majors. That thread had some very sage advice that said, you are responsible for your own happiness.
That's exactly what I've done during my military career. I have had the "long game" in mind for quite some time...I have some life and career goals that I've wanted to achieve that required me to make a full 20-year career of the USAF. @MikeD spoke of the "fun bucket" vs the "pain bucket", and the balance that guys make. Like him, I've had plenty of times where my fun bucket was pretty much empty and the pain bucket overfloweth. I've been in a non-flying job the the last three years and been at the butt-end of some pretty heinous treatment by the AF during most of that time (once I'm retired from the AF and not on probation at a 121 shop, I promise I'll let you all in on what I've been going through)...but I've always kept in mind the long game, and that I was responsible for keeping myself happy while I soldiered on toward the goal.
Going to retirement hasn't always been my goal. I seriously contemplated getting out of the AF three separate times...and each time I stepped back, looked at all the factors involved, spoke to my family and trusted friends (both in and out of the military), and ultimately decided to stay in and continue. Back about 2007 or 2008 in when I actually committed to myself and my family to go all the way to 20, knowing that the last 8 years would probably entail the crappier duties and experiences than the first 12 years. For all the years as a Lt and Captain, out there turning-and-burning, and thinking I was the world's finest fighter pilot, flying into danger, getting shot at, killing bad guys and saving good ones....those years were offset by the inane queep, politics, and spirit-crushing work as a Major and Lt Col.
It has been both a great ride and a phenomenally crappy ride -- really no different of a balance that people would find in any other occupation. Ultimately, it all balances out in the end so far as I'm concerned, and I've made the choice to be happy doing it.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
Reminds me of the CMC at my last command. He comes busting into the ready room, fairly certain this was right in the middle of a brief for a combat flight, and says something like "I haven't gotten Driving for Life course certs from any of you LT's". This is a program that is a Navy wide requirement for anyone 25 years old and younger. As the senior JO in the room, I just shook my head and said, "master chief, how old do you think we are?" Granted we were a slightly unusually old group of JO's (most of us in our early 30's) but just mathematically, even as a brand new FNG, you are going to have to be older than 25 to be in a fleet hornet squadron.
NewYorkophile
Fly Casual
Ugh. Big pet peeve of mine. Thinking that you're doing something important, and interrupting other people's lives without any consideration that what they're doing is MORE important. Possibly definition of queep.
Guard is a bit better. "Oh there's this new training AFCENT requires before you can use crosswalks. The test answers are A, C, D, B, C, A, D. Sign this. You're now certified to use crosswalks." And, unfortunately, that wasn't a joke.
What really grinds my gears is just how many different organizations can "impose" work and/or requirements on the rest of the USAF. Every airman needs a briefing on this? Really? How about you say "Commanders must ensure these rules are followed", and then it's the commanders job, and then we all don't have to wear diapers. How about you give the commanders some top cover for doing their jobs. How about you not have JO's getting undermined by perma-Chiefs with the ear of the WG/CC?
The lists go on...