Corporate pilot

climbto350

New Member
Hello everybody. My future aviation goal is either flying freight (FedEx, UPS, etc) or corporate. Corporate flying looks like a nice life style because your not away as often as flying with an airliner plus I would imagine it would be less stressful with less politics. One thing I want to deal with in the future at the minimum is politics because I can really see how they just destroy the work place and everybody's moral, including mine. The job I have right now is like that and all I can say is its not something I would want to put up with for the rest of my life. I know theres always going to be politics no matter where you work but its really bad where I am and I just hope not all jobs are like that. For crying out loud, people at my work probably know what I had for breakfest without me even telling anybody.

I just want to know, what life style is better? Airliners or corporate? I know its a bold question and it depends on the person I guess but I guess I want to know what the corporate life style is like and would you rather be flying corporate or airliners? I would love to fly the big puppy's for a major company but on the other hand, the smaller corporate airlines seems like a more relaxed, less stressful life style and you get to be home more often. How does the pay scale differ between the 2?

To me, it just seems like corporate flying is less hassle and there's not a much strict code to follow by. To me, the bigger the plane your flying and the bigger the company, the more red tape there's going to be as far as your job goes (more politics, away a lot more often, more stress, etc.) But I'll let the people who actually do it tell me if its really like that. Do corporate pilots get to fly all over the world too or is it mostly regional?

I currently have 125 hours and have a lot of years ahead of me so there's plenty of time to think. One other question would be which is easier to get into?
 
Well, you have a lot of questions, so I'll answer some.
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Corporate flying looks like a nice life style because your not away as often as flying with an airliner plus I would imagine it would be less stressful with less politics.

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No necessarily true and a common misconception. Some corporate pilots are gone from home A LOT more than most airline pilots. Often time (more often than not), there isn't really a schedule, so you can take that for what it's worth. As far as politics go, you're dealing with pilots here, come on, the politics can be much worse in a smaller environment than a larger one.
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How does the pay scale differ between the 2?


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Well that largely depends on the company, but there are standards. A friend of mine flies a GV and a global and makes over a quarter million dollars per year. Another friend of mine has four type ratings in larger corporate jets, 3000+ hours of PIC time in these type airplanes and Makes about $120K per year working for a small group of principles. So, the gist of what I'm getting at here is; pay varies by the company and type of operations.
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To me, it just seems like corporate flying is less hassle and there's not a much strict code to follow by

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Once again, not necessarily true at all. Yet another good friend of mine flies a Challenger for a fortune 500 company and things are very regimented and strict. The airplane is treated better than most human royalty.
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To me, the bigger the plane your flying and the bigger the company, the more red tape there's going to be as far as your job goes (more politics, away a lot more often, more stress, etc.)

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Often times it's very much the opposite.
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Do corporate pilots get to fly all over the world too or is it mostly regional?

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Absolutely! ALL over the world. And this is where some of the perks to Corporate flying come in. As a corporate pilot with a good company, one should stay in 4-5 star accommodations, eat and drink VERY well and in some cases have to opportunity to include family on various adventures around the globe.

One other thing that is nice about flying a corporate jet for a large wealthy company is that the airplanes and equipment are very new and maintained to very high standards. I.e., state of the art airplanes and avionics equipment, beautiful hangars, ground equipment and support etc. No questions asked, if something needs to be done, it gets done. I hope this helps and enlightens you 35oh!
 
See the thing I read somewhere else is that if you have a family which I may want someday, the corporate life style is better if your home more often which is the impression I got from corporate flying. Plus what you said about bringing families with you on trips. Don't know if you can do that with many airliners but maybe you can I don't really know.

So do most corporate pilots also get to stay in better hotels than airliners? I always hear that lots of pilots have to stay in not so good hotels.

Also the equipment thing I read is what's better about corporate flying too. That most planes in corporate flying are newer, more advance than airliners. They would have to be more advance seen as though a lot of the jets flying in the airliners are pretty old.

Decisions, decisions but at least there are options. Like I said, I would love to fly the big planes and still have the nice perks and nice life style. I just want to know where I have the better chance.
 
Allow me to add to what Jonnyb ... aka Sean has said ...

Please consider this is merely my opinion and my perspective is from that of a Corporate pilot as I have never flown for an Airline. Not that, that is a bad thing.
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My favorite answer to questions of life and specifically aviation is ... it just depends ...

The biggest variable here is the corporate character and the value they put on you as an employee.

I would say that while it is true that most corporate pilots fly less hours than an airline pilot you have to consider the rate at which they fly. An airline pilot flies about 8 hrs per work day. A corporate pilot may take off on a monday for parts unknown and sit untill mid or late week and then return home accumuating a whopping 8 hrs. of flight time. So hours flown is only a small part of the picture. Hours flown does not neccessarily equate time away from home. It is true however that the bigger the corporate airplane is the bigger the pilot's suitcase. The more money a company spends on an asset like a mid size jet the more that assest has to perform for the company and that directly means time away from home. I would say an average corporate pilot will fly about 300 hrs. per year. I have had jobs where I flew less and I've had jobs where I flew more. My highest year was about 650 hrs. corporate/civilian and another 150 hrs. as a Guard Pilot. I think the typicall Airline pilot will fly about 800 -1000 hrs. per year.

Stress in aviation ... you surely must be joking ... I am not joking and don't call me shirley again. Stress is about the individual and thier ability to cope with lifes situations. There is a lot of stress in a corporate job because the typical flight dept. is small compared to the other depts. in a corporation yet they suck a much larger percentage of the companies money, our budget for a 3 man dept is in excess of 1 million dollars. As a line pilot you will always have a target on your back from the accountants who doesn't see why you should be making more money than they do and all you did was work 8 hrs. last week. People believe that pilots sitting in a nice hotel sponging off a corporate expense account aren't working. Ironically most stress in life ( not just a pilots life ) comes from home and the situations there. Leaking roofs, cars that won't start, kids that need braces, wives that ... I'll stop there. You get the point.

Politics? You betcha, people are people and there will always be back bitting, back stabbing or what ever you want to call it. Heck there are politics even working at McDonalds. Its just that pilots being the educated bunch that we are do it with much more finess.

Pay is ... well there really is no "scale" per sey, but I would generally say it is getting better and more consistant. It will never be on par with the airlines. You do give up money, but you do gain, in my opinion, a better quality of life. My pay is fair, I have a nice home, my kids go to private school and my wife doesn't work outside the home. We make sacrifices, such as I don't own that Harley I really really want ... but those are decisions we make to have the other things we feel are more important right now.
I also like working with the decision makers, most corporate pilots are on a first name basis with the CEO or the company. Not always but mostly.

Hassles ... you can count on them. As a corporate pilot we don't just fly the airplane. We schedule / monitor maintenance, we order catering, we set up Hotels and rental cars, we load the airplane, we wash the airplane, we clean the hangar, we mow the grass, we clean the bathrooms, we do the budget, we do the billing, we order/pick up the office supplies, we do it all. And by the way it doesn't matter if you are flying a King Air or a Challenger all these things have to be done, granted larger depts may have a custodian and even some office staff to do these things ... while this lowers the Hassle factor it rises the stress/politics factors.

Not sure what you mean about strict codes to follow, most corporate flight depts have SOPs ... Standard Operating Procedures, not to mention the FARs. I would say we are very strict in our flight operations. Our flight dept. has an outside audit once a year for safety and standards. It is very simular to the annuall Aviation Resource Management inpsections I go through in Army Aviaiton.
If you mean dress code it again all depends, our company we fly in business casuall yet sometimes will don a suit and tie.

Travel at the corporate level has alot of variables. First if it is a private company dept. you may find yourself flying the boss to some nice places for HIS vacation ... and yes maybe ... a big maybe, your wife could come along. I've been flying for 10yrs and my wife has been on 0 flights with me. If it is a publically held company all bets are off in light of all the recent accounting scandals. Most public companies right now are very cautious with the use of thier corporate airplanes, and IF a spouse gets to go along they have to reimburse the corporation at the rate of an airline ticket, there is tax issues at question and generally it is not being done right now. Also a private company may not "throw" as much money at the ammenities of a flight dept., as could a publicly held company that is doing well on the stock market.
The bottom line on corporate flying is that it is a tool for the company to save time or explore new market. Most corporate depts. fly to the same places because that is where thier factories are or where thier customers are. The variety in flying comes from flying different customers with different needs, ie: part 135 flying and in my opinion you can have that. Never did 135, don't ever want to.

Hotels are another variable. As a corporate pilot you may be called upon to do a last minute flight someplace and all the good hotels could be booked up. I have stayed at some very nice hotels, and I have stayed at a few really really bad ones. It also goes to the corporate character, I have a friend who flew a small plane for a company and they would put 3 to 4 people to a hotel room ... our company used to put both pilots in the same room untill the current chief pilot put an end to that.

Aircraft equipment is as varied as the company themselves. There is good equipment out there and not so good equipment, the biggest difference right now is GPS. Some airlines don't have it, but for domestic routes they don't need it. Most airlines have TCAS while there are alot of corporation without it and as a pilot I want TCAS over GPS any day. So there is a give and take going on. Eventually with the new regs coming down most aircraft will be simularly equiped.

Hopes this helps you see that there are no absoulutes in this business. Work hard, network hard and you may score a job we all envy ... btw: You can't have my job.

Jim
 
WOW! Outstanding reply C650CPT!!!

You have done a great job of spilling some information on the Corporate Aviation level, thank you.

I always toggle back and forth between exactly where I want my career to go. Luckily I can still sit here and ponder that while I study for my Private written, finish up my active duty tour and get ready for Flight school.

Having a few friends in the Major and Regional Airline industry, I can get a good picture of what life will be like. I have always speculated Corporate life, but can only do just that - speculate. You gave me a good insight.

My goal is to fly for a living. While money is important to me, I think being happy with my job (at least most of the time), surpasses the money department ( to some extent). I make less than 30k right now in the military but I hate my job. If I made less than 30k but loved my job flying around, I'd be a happy camper. My mom works for a small Corporation that flies all over the place, but they use the Major/Regionals because they are 15 employee's strong and not at the big time status yet, but from what my mom's boss (company owner) tells me, they are getting there very fast and forsee a flight department coming soon with the travel they do. Man I'd love to land that job and being on a first name basis friendly level with her boss, he knows my intentions on a career in aviation, so if they ever get there, my foot is in the cockpit door.

I think Corporate flying, although it has its downsides like every job in the world, appears to be much better than the airlines. Both in pay and stability. Regional pilots make dirt, especially new FO's (17k..are you nuts? McDonalds supervisors make more than that). I mean money isn't a big issue as long as you have enough to live comfortably. Some may not think 25k is much to live on, but for the last 4 years I've gotten used to it and its not bad. Have a nice car, do a lot of fun things and still don't have much in the way of bills.

I just want to make decent money 30k+ and enjoy my office at FL330. I don't mind the travel, I can deal with politics (believe me the military has enough of it) and a little manual labor from time to time (cut grass, wash plane etc. etc.) is definitely a good thing. I like to work.

So...my question for you is....how I can be a Corporate pilot? Probably have to fly for a regional for a few years to gain the flight time correct?

Thanks again for the insight....brilliant!!
 
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...how I can be a Corporate pilot? Probably have to fly for a regional for a few years to gain the flight time correct?


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Flight Instruct......talk to every corp pilot you park beside. Fly freight......talk to every corp pilot you park beside (or see). Hang out at the airport....talk to every corp pilot you see. Fly for a 135 charter outfit....one with many aircraft, talk to every corp pilot you see. Show an honest interest and desire to follow their footsteps. Ask for pointers/directions to take your career to the next level. Maybe they are hiring or maybe they know someone.....All the while you are building more experience.

That said. If you approach someone, and they don't look like they want to talk, don't take it personally. Sometimes we/they have a bad day. Maybe they will try to put the best foot forward for you. Maybe they will run and hide. You never know. Most guys are more than happy to show off, or brag about "their" plane.

Good luck along the way,
NJA Capt
 
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While money is important to me, I think being happy with my job (at least most of the time), surpasses the money department ( to some extent).

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Ding, Ding, Ding, we have a winner. That is always the case, I'm finding out. More money may not mean a better QOL. It's funny because most times you hear people making good money say they they would make less to be happier(that's me) and those that don't make alot want to make more money and when they do most say things were alot better before LOL.

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how I can be a Corporate pilot? Probably have to fly for a regional for a few years to gain the flight time correct?


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From what I've seen it is all about networking. The corporate pilots I've seen and met may have an opening for a co-pilot/first officer and 95% of the time they already have someone in mind and let him fly a trip or two to make sure it is a good fit. So you want to get get hours and get in that circle so people can think of you when that hiring window opens because it opens and closes before you know it. Oh yeah, have your pilot's resume ready too.
 
My flight instructor that I took a iscovery flight with (will be taking other lessons with him too) flies gulfstreams and a bunch of corporate aircraft at BCT. Should I take flying lessons with him? It is gonna cost me more because it is in a brand new C172sp but I'll be getting some good contacts. I also liked the flight school. Or should I go to American Flyers and rent the cheap 150s and not have contacts? BCT is busy with corporate traffic so it would be a good place to fly out of. Now for some questions about corporate flying:

Do corporate pilots have seniority like the airlines?

What is the difference between charter and corporate flying?

Have any of you corporate pilots flown into BCT?
 
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My flight instructor that I took a iscovery flight with (will be taking other lessons with him too) flies gulfstreams and a bunch of corporate aircraft at BCT. Should I take flying lessons with him? It is gonna cost me more because it is in a brand new C172sp but I'll be getting some good contacts.

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I had the exact same decision to make awhile back. I went ahead and trained with the more expensive, more experienced instructor. I'm glad I did. Not only have I received training that's beyond anything I could have received from some kid looking to build time until he gets the job he really wants, but now the guy is going to hire me on at his school and find me work elsewhere (he doesn't do much primary training) when I finish my CFI. On top of that, I get constant remarks from him like "wish you were at 600 hours, I could get you in the right seat of that Piaggio over there". If you can spare the bucks, do it. If not, maybe do your instrument or commercial with him later on.
 
Well I am a 16 year old so money would definately be an issue. Does sim time cot a lot? The reason I ask is due to the fact that they offer free sim time.
 
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Does sim time cot a lot? The reason I ask is due to the fact that they offer free sim time.

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Up to 50 hours toward your commercial.
 
Interesting topic. I don't think there is any easy answer or path to any flight job here. To be honest, to get the "Good Job" flying corporate, it is going to take time, experience, contacts, luck, timing, etc, etc.

Most people that I have met or know that fly corporate (which is anything business) are older and have alot of life experience. Not to say that someone younger with tons of time can't get hired. But most companies tend to desire a very mature individual that can represent the company well. And as previously posted, can interact well with CEO's, CFO's and other guests. That is hard to do when you are 21. You could be the most experienced pilot in the world, but usually companies look for someone whom has experience, but more importantly fits the mold of the company.

Corp guys, correct me if I am wrong, but they are also requiring at least a 4 yr degree right? I know of some that actually want their guys to get a master's degree as well for other biz duties, as these pilots usually run all aspects of the flight department to include budget, staffing and other managerial duties.

By the way, the last several posts have been fantastic. Thank you guys for the information. You truly give insight to what the life is truly like.

I will leave you with this little story. Let's just say a friend of mine works for a government agency and has for quite a while. He got his commercial license (single engine only) but life cought up (as usually does) and my friend was only able to fly a little bit here and there to keep current for instrument and night time issues.

My friends flight instructor and good friend had been flying a 182 for a small company for about a year. During this time, my friend was able to meet and interact with several members of the company. Even went flying with them on company trips (read informal interviews) with various employees of the company.

One day, the President of the company, (hearing good things about my friend) was able to sit and have a conversation with my friend for about an hour or so. By the end, he was deemed the companies "back up pilot". He told the company pilot to get my friend up to speed on all the routes and to keep him current in the event that his services were needed during an absense of the regular pilot.

Now though it is only a 182, it is a first flying job (when needed) for my friend, paid for flying, and great connections for the years to come.

However, my friend is mid 30's, currently works in law enforcement (which the company liked as a show of trustworthiness), has a bachelors degree, and came highly recommended by their regular pilot.

My friends times are low, but due to the company feeling at ease with the overall situation, it worked out. It may be a small step in the overall flying picture, but it is a big leap in his future flying career........
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But most companies tend to desire a very mature individual that can represent the company well.

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Well then explain how I got a job flying corporate
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Well my CFI has a total of 1300 hours so I guess that's pretty low time to be flying gulfstreams, huh?
 
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But most companies tend to desire a very mature individual that can represent the company well.

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Well then explain how I got a job flying corporate
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There's an exception to every rule, Jim . . .
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