Continental pilot dies in flight

Polar742 said:
It could possibly add to the workload of the remaining pilot. Perhaps to the point of task saturation.
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:yeahthat:

Even if you CAN find somebody, you're still gonna have to school them on what you want them to do, then keep an eye on them while diverting attention from an otherwise simple task. It's a fine line between help and hindrance, especially when you throw in the time and effort it would take to get everybody briefed and situated, etc.
 
Is it me or has the happened to CO a few times in the past few years? At any rate, very sad to hear.

Thank god the F/Os figured out how to land the plane!:sarcasm:
 
ClearedToThe said:
And you think having a random Peter Pilot (who has potentially zero time in a transport category airplane) up there with you is gonna *reduce* your workload? You gotta be kidding me.

This is probably how your described situation would play out...

FO: Engine Fire immediate action items
Peter Pilot: The What?
FO: Immediate action items card
Peter Pilot: Where is that?

I think you can see the point I am getting at here. There is a very fine line between an additional crewmember being a RESOURCE and being a DISTRACTION.

Personally I believe it would be alot easier to throw on the AP and grab the checklist myself.

Also on the issues of the radio...most FOMs suggest the captain takes the radio and allows to FO to fly so each question from ATC isn't followed by a "What do you want me to tell them?" conversation in the flight deck between the two crewmembers. Now imagine having Peter Pilot up there working the radios. You don't think he's gonna ask you to confirm every radio transmission he is gonna make? You might as well make the radio calls yourself at that point before his constant questioning on the radio becomes a distraction.

Just my $.02
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What if the guy had 2000 hours of Microcoft FS4 time? And in type, to boot?

:D
 
jhugz said:
We tend to always give someone a free pass on their judgement or thought process when the airplane gets on the ground safely but honestly mistakes can still be made from which we can learn from even if the outcome was good. Add a couple more variables in here and there and those same decisions may cost lives. What happens if he tanks an engine single pilot? Would you be able to handle that single pilot? ALL AVAILABLE RESOURCES is like AV101.
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This just strikes me as funny. I mean you can argue all day about all the astronomically improbable things that might happen. What if the remaining pilot gets struck by 4 limb-sized meteors simultaneously, instantly rendering him/her a quadriplegic? Wouldn't you want a private pilot at the controls then? What about if everybody on the plane ate the chicken except the one flightsim guy? What if flightsim guy is also on the terror watch list?
 
E_Dawg said:
This just strikes me as funny. I mean you can argue all day about all the astronomically improbable things that might happen. What if the remaining pilot gets struck by 4 limb-sized meteors simultaneously, instantly rendering him/her a quadriplegic? Wouldn't you want a private pilot at the controls then? What about if everybody on the plane ate the chicken except the one flightsim guy? What if flightsim guy is also on the terror watch list?
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I don't think that's what he was saying at all.
 
Well I guess my point is you can argue/worry about the "what-ifs" all day but either option could potentially work out just fine if you're smart about it.
 
calcapt said:
Pilot who died inflight was the captain on flt 61 BRU-EWR. Pilots DOB was 7/16/1948 making him 60. He was #29 out of approx 5000 on Continental's seniority list. FO has an 87 hire date and the IRO would of been hired in the late 90s. They were an experienced crew and the two remaining pilots flying would of had NO issues operating the flight safely. Very somber tones in the Newark crew room today. :(
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You wanna know what grinds my gears? A guy dies up front in an airplane today, and in a certain other forum, one of the first things that comes up is whether one of these guys is a scab..... yeesh.

I'm sorry for your and your crewmembers loss' CalCapt...
 
Sad news to hear. My condolences to family and feiends. CalCapt, I'm guess you may have known the guy, sorry for your loss.

As for the topic of soliciting help... Yes, even on a day like today I would have no qualms about being able to handle the situation entirely on my own. An extra body (no pun intended) to work the radios or run a checklist however, would certainly be appreciated as it's just one less thing I have to actually do. So I would not be at all opposed to bringing someone up front to help be it company pilot or Joe Schmoe with a license, but I would also not feel in any way obligated to do so.
 
Medical personnel would be useless and in the way in the cockpit. An incapacitated flight crew member is first and foremost removed from the flight deck and dealt with elsewhere in the aircraft. There's not enough room in an airliner cockpit to deal with a medical emergency, get him/her out of there, out of the way of operation of the airplane, and in the back where s/he can be attended to.
 
This is also one of the reasons that even if my company is revving me somewhere, I try to make it to the cockpit to introduce myself to the flight crew so that they know that I'm back there and can offer assistance if something does happen.
 
MQAAord said:
Medical personnel would be useless and in the way in the cockpit. An incapacitated flight crew member is first and foremost removed from the flight deck and dealt with elsewhere in the aircraft. There's not enough room in an airliner cockpit to deal with a medical emergency, get him/her out of there, out of the way of operation of the airplane, and in the back where s/he can be attended to.
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:yourock:

For using your grape in a realistic manner, you and yours win a pair of beers at Lost Wages.
:beer:
 
MQAAord said:
Medical personnel would be useless and in the way in the cockpit. An incapacitated flight crew member is first and foremost removed from the flight deck and dealt with elsewhere in the aircraft. There's not enough room in an airliner cockpit to deal with a medical emergency, get him/her out of there, out of the way of operation of the airplane, and in the back where s/he can be attended to.
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Typically, you're correct. The 777 cockpit may in fact be the lone exception to this rule.

There's actually full room to lie down on the floor behind the cockpit.. and spread out even.

Either way, there's no way I'd want a circus of people conducting medical aid in my cockpit while I was trying to deal with an emergency such as losing a crewmember.

Nevertheless, you're absolutely correct in all other cases. No room for anything.

On a more serious note-

RIP, Captain. Godspeed, brother.

Forgive me if this seems in poor taste, but perhaps this might help to illustrate why First Officers are so dreadfully important to airline operations. Airlines have gotten away with treating us like cash-only dayworkers loaded into a pickup truck for years.

Perhaps now the public, and Congress, will make note of our worth.
 
I agree with the post earlier. I think it would be more work to have someone up there that wasn't trained on the aircraft. This is not being macho or thinking I am the greatest but there is going to be enough stress going on without having to worry about jo blow next to me.

If you want to get technical, when I declare the emergancy, I own everything...any airport, any airspace (minus P-56) etc. If I had to, I would say I am declaring an emergancy and returning/diverting to xxx, need the trucks and THATS IT!!! At that point if I needed to I don't have to say another word. If I get to busy then tough. Aviate, navigate, COMMUNICATE. The last time I checked, that came last. As far as checklists, once again, if you want to get technical the airplane will tell me if I forget anything MAJOR (i.e. gear flaps). If I forget to ARM the reversers...ohh well, the airplane was certified with just the brakes. If I forget the landing data...oh well, I will land it at 146kts which is our highest VRef+5. Everything else is secondary.

I am not really concerned with terrorist or CASS or anything, I just don't want to spend the time explaining how to work radios and tune this and do that. After completing ground school and CPT on the airplane, it was still a goat screw the first time we got in the sim...I couldn't imagine how it would be with someone just flying cessnas. I think it would put more stress on me when, as stated before, we (FO's) are actually trained on the airplane and could land it just fine single pilot.

Hey, what about that flight where the CA or FO lost it and went crazy. Did the other pilot start asking the cabin if someone could help him...nooooo he did it himself, as I am sure most of you would too!
 
Just talked to dad about it, he did not know the guy. CAL 777s have one tiller on the left side.

He has also added one item to his initial crew brief. "If I keel over please don't take me all the way to Newark, drop me off in Bangor."

Its weird how the only time I hear from certain family members is when something like this or the DEN accident happens.
 
I can't find the article that I'm looking for, but a few years ago, a guy who was working on his instrument rating was called up to the cockpit of a Southwest flight when one of the pilots was incapacitated. I think in a similar circumstance, I would ask for the assistant of another pilot. If anything to read a checklist, look for traffic, or something I would find to reduce my workload.
 
jynxyjoe said:
Irrepressable hopefulness. Ladies and Gentlemen I give you Charlie.
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Throughout history, all innovation, change, achievement, and accomplishment has started simply through someone raising their head, clenching their fists, and stepping forward.


(Edit: I'll give up when I'm dead. I imagine I'll have other things to deal with at that point.)
 
Semi related.....

This link will take you to an interview with the 150 hour private pilot that was in the cockpit of the Continental incident in Texas where a cockpit crew member passed away in the cockpit.

I haven't listened to it in a while and I can't right now because I'm at work, but I'd be interested to hear comments.
 
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