Complex Endorsement

[Mike H]

Just don't do touch and go's. You might grab the wrong handle and retract the gear on the ground :whatever:

BOOM goes the dynamite

In all seriousness, most insurance coverage will require the pilot to have 100-125 hrs PIC time, plus 10 hours Complex a/c, plus a make & model checkout and including a certain number of takeoffs & landings.

In theory, a 125 hour pilot with 9 hours of previous complex time receiving dual instruction could finish a checkout with just one additional hour of dual including, say, 10 touch & go's

Or a 60 hour pilot could take 10 hours of dual in a complex a/c and complete a checkout, but not be allowed to rent it for anything but dual instruction until he has 125 hours. For instance, doing all your instrument training & cross country flights in an Arrow or 172RG, and being qualified to fly solo around the same time as the IFR checkride.

 

[Roger, Roger]

Multi engine aircraft do fly quite differently.

And PPL/Comm/ATP don't specify WHAT you can fly, they specify HOW, so not really the same thing there.

You made the argument that insurance determines minimums to fly a complex.

The same thing is true of multi. A fresh PPL AMEL isn't going to get insurance anymore than a fresh PPL-Complex. Why not do away with the AMEL rating and just make it an endorsement, and count on insurance minimums to keep people out of trouble? [/devil's advocate]

I think perhaps they should just change to a retractable gear endorsement.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

I think perhaps they should just change to a retractable gear endorsement.

Why the hate against water rudders? Everyone always forgets you don't have to have retractable gear to get a complex endorsement. Just flaps, constant speed prop, and water rudders.

 

[drunkenbeagle]

I think perhaps they should just change to a retractable gear endorsement.

I totally agree.

 

[drunkenbeagle]

Nothing bugs me more than somebody who will endorse somebody after an hour.

What if somebody is ready to be signed off after an hour? People should be signed off when they demonstrate skill and proficiency, and when the instructor is confident in their ability.

With me about to be the 300 hour CFI checking out 12,000 hour fighter pilots, how much time am I really going to make them do when they are already flying the aircraft far better than I can?

 

[germb747]

With me about to be the 300 hour CFI checking out 12,000 hour fighter pilots

Never heard of one

 

[CFIT99]

Complex endorsement is very important. Even more important are the school's and how quick CFI's sign off those endorsements. Nothing bugs me more than somebody who will endorse somebody after an hour.

is that why the new part 61 rules state that the 10 hours of complex is now 10 hours of advanced instrument (whatever that entails) for the CPL

the change goes into effect next year sometime

FWIW I'm not sure of this, just heard it a lil while back, some one please correct me if I am wrong

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

is that why the new part 61 rules state that the 10 hours of complex is now 10 hours of advanced instrument (whatever that entails) for the CPL

the change goes into effect next year sometime

FWIW I'm not sure of this, just heard it a lil while back, some one please correct me if I am wrong

It is indeed in the proposal stage. Probably be more than 12 months until it would have the chance to go final, if it ever does.

I don't have a problem with it. All it does is change what you have to do for commercial training. Your still going to have to get the endorsement to fly a complex airplane, so all it does is change a few things.

 

[Slugger]

So, let's say, hypothetically, I get my (useless) Multi add on to my PPL in a seminole. Would that give me a complex endorsement too?

 

[drunkenbeagle]

Never heard of one

It really is kinda weird, since when I start doing the CFI-G thing, many of the transition students will have been flying professionally for 40+ years. Pretty much all of them know way more about aviation than I ever will.

 

[splash]

So, let's say, hypothetically, I get my (useless) Multi add on to my PPL in a seminole. Would that give me a complex endorsement too?

uh huh.
does it have retract, constant speed, and flaps? uh huh!

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

So, let's say, hypothetically, I get my (useless) Multi add on to my PPL in a seminole. Would that give me a complex endorsement too?

If the CFI finds you competent in complex operations, I'd imagine you could get the complex endorsement out of the training. That said, they wouldn't have to give it to you, but finding a DPE who is willing to do a checkride where they are the PIC is slim.

 

[splash]

My CFI said I was ready to be signed off at around 4 hours, but I needed 10 hours complex to solo the airplane for insurance requirements. Because of the insurance requirement, I didn't get it until I logged the 10 hours complex.

Flight schools that sell this reasoning to a student should be made a bad name for. Scum bags.

Did they even ask you if you were interested in soloing in it EVER?

I never soloed a complex a/c during training. There is no reason to.:dunno:

 

[pnwchief22]

Slugger, you could receive the complex endorsement in a single engine, like a Cessna 172RG or a light twin, like the Seminole after the instructor finds your competency level has met his or her requirement.

That said, the endorsement doesn't directly allow a pilot to achieve solo rental of the complex aircraft; depending on rental policy of the FBO or flight school many hours of dual could be required.

To add more single engine flight time, you should check around your airport and find an instrument pilot who is looking for a safety pilot, offer your share of fuel, climb into the right seat (complex or not).