Commuter airlines' underpaid pilots are plain scary!

[SpiraMirabilis]

Plus all the stuff above and this:
Being a CFI taught me how to be comfortable in my own, for lack of a better word, authority as an airman. A kind of aviation confidence, that while I understood I knew little about transport category airplanes and 121 ops that I did know STUFF and I felt comfortable in the cockpit in any regime of flight. Taught me to make decisions, go no-go decisions, diversions, etc.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

Believe it or not Mesa's program was set up like that. I routinely saw students get asked to leave (or rather, not continue) if they didn't finish in time. This wasn't always the fault of the student and wasn't always a reflection on their piloting abilities; I've flown with 1 or 2 at my current company who had that happen and they are great pilots, but that was Mesa's SOP. Mesa didn't want their money if they didn't complete the courses in time.

One of the guys in my new hire class was in that program and he told me that about half of the people that started the MAPD thing with him were asked to quit, which surprised me. I figured Mesa'd love to just keep taking peoples money!!!

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Sorry, but that is the worst idea I have ever heard!

Have to agree with Zmiller on this.

If the 3407 Captain had actually sat his ass in a Cessna for 1000 hours teaching/learning stall recovery then this thread probably wouldnt exist.

His FO had plenty of instructing time, but it didn't seem to help. The problem there was poor stall recovery training. Actually, NO stall recovery training. Airlines don't teach it....at all! I haven't done any stall recoveries in eight years. Airline training is only "approaches" to stalls. You never actually stall the plane. As soon as the stick starts to shake, you do the recovery procedure, and there is no pushing forward to unload the wing, which is exactly what this Captain should have done. Without the muscle memory of having done it a bunch of times in the sim, no amount of instructing years ago would have helped him. Airline training needs to be changed to incorporate actual stall recoveries and not just approaches to stalls.

 

[Goonie]

His FO had plenty of instructing time, but it didn't seem to help. The problem there was poor stall recovery training. Actually, NO stall recovery training. Airlines don't teach it....at all! I haven't done any stall recoveries in eight years. Airline training is only "approaches" to stalls. You never actually stall the plane. As soon as the stick starts to shake, you do the recovery procedure, and there is no pushing forward to unload the wing, which is exactly what this Captain should have done. Without the muscle memory of having done it a bunch of times in the sim, no amount of instructing years ago would have helped him. Airline training needs to be changed to incorporate actual stall recoveries and not just approaches to stalls.

I get what you're saying, but maybe the thinking of just teaching recovery from an imminent stall would be so pilots don't get to the point where they have to recover from a stall. Im just speculating here.

If what you say is true about not teaching stall recovery in the sim, then thats a huge hole in the training department.I would agree with you that it needs to be fixed.

 

[MikeD]

I say keep the Lazy 8's and other commercial manuvers!

They are part of the basics. Make for a safer pilot than some zero to hero autopilot monkey in the right seat of a CRJ-700 who can't hand fly himself out of a paper bag.

 

[PGT]

They are part of the basics. Make for a safer pilot than some zero to hero autopilot monkey in the right seat of a CRJ-700 who can't hand fly himself out of a paper bag.

...I bet you sure know a lot about paper bags

 

[dasleben]

Cape Air getting the ATRs and they are openly talking about fleet replacement for the 402s, with their new JetBlue arrangement.

Sorry, just had to respond to this.

We've had the two ATRs for several years now. No expansion there.

The replacement you speak of is for the aging 402s, and the replacement will not be larger aircraft. That would destroy the business model. By the way, the JetBlue codeshare isn't exactly new either.

 

[Polar742]

Sorry, just had to respond to this.

We've had the two ATRs for several years now. No expansion there.

The replacement you speak of is for the aging 402s, and the replacement will not be larger aircraft. That would destroy the business model. By the way, the JetBlue codeshare isn't exactly new either.

Obviously you work there. Thanks for interjecting....

I knew the JetBlue codeshare wasn't new, just threw that out there. Did not know there were only 2 ATRs. Very interesting. At one time Chautauqua only had 2 30 seat airplanes and the 99s (not that one is connected to the other, just a "you never know" deal)

As far as replacing the 402s, what are the candidates, as nothing is really being built in that class? Or nothing to hear yet?

Thanks man....

 

[dasleben]

Obviously you work there. Thanks for interjecting....

I knew the JetBlue codeshare wasn't new, just threw that out there. Did not know there were only 2 ATRs. Very interesting. At one time Chautauqua only had 2 30 seat airplanes and the 99s (not that one is connected to the other, just a "you never know" deal)

As far as replacing the 402s, what are the candidates, as nothing is really being built in that class? Or nothing to hear yet?

Thanks man....

Nice reaction time!

At one point Cape was talking about expanding the 121 operation with more ATRs but that really was put in the back burner and never really brought up again. Still just the two, and I don't see CAL trying to expand that. Another CPA was just signed extending the two aircraft through 2011, so nothing at least until then I'm sure. I certainly wish there were maybe a couple more; I'd love to be able to hold ATR CA. But, alas...

The replacement for the 402 is a tough one. I don't think anyone has any real idea of what it'll be, or even if the aircraft even exists yet. The CEO wants new 9 passenger, piston, multiengine airplanes. Unless Cessna spools up the 402 line again (not bloody likely unless we buy 250 of them), I think it'll have to be a new design.

 

[Polar742]

Nice reaction time!

Nothing like sitting in a hotel room away from home. JC keeps me out of trouble.....


Thanks for the update. I appreciate it.

 

[Patrick]

The 402 replacement is an interesting idea. Unless there's something I'm not thinking of, nothing is currently, or was even in recent production that is qualifies in the big piston twin market?

Is management set on a piston twin?