Commute Air Off Runway at ROA

bp said:
you expected a better take out of an arranged marriage?
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Because your love marriages are a sparkling success in this country?



Divorce in this country is through the roof. But hey, you come flex it wasn’t arranged.

Except it most likely was, because someone probably introduced her to you, through friends. Or you met her online (arranged through March.com or some other online venue). Or you met through some other medium that involved another person, friend, family, etc.


Zero regrets here, and I wouldn’t change a thing. We were both each others first.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I think realistically that’s a lot easier said than done, and incident/accident history shows that.
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I mean, I've done it in a Cessna once. It was awkward between us for a bit, but it was better than a prop strike. I think I said "My airplane ninja" and karate chopped their arm lmfao. Got it down then handed it back in the roll out since it wasn't hard to save the landing. And I was technically a passenger just watching them eff up and taking over, if you are part of the flight crew it should be a reflex to stop the plane from crashing. With paying people behind you...it is kinda your job. That is the whole argument for 2 pilots.

Yeah, its awkward. But not as awkward as explaining why you didn't do it to an NTSB investigator.
 
I think reading the transcipt vs hearing it could be telling. I am not a fan of fighting over the controls, which I think would only lead to worse outcomes. I am reminded of an ATR accident down in SJU (i think) were the senior captain tried to half takeover a bad landing and ended up taking a bad landing into a crash. I do think a call to ATC and calling a go around could have been effective. I do believe that a forceful "Captain, Go around!" on the second call, or calling the guys name (or calling him a name!) "Billybob!, go around" couldve been effective in taking the captain back out of the fight and into the moment. Of course one "go around" call shouldve been enough, but human factors of selective hearing or blocking something out could come into play. Or the guy is just a cowboy and does whatever he wants and none of this wouldve mattered.
 
Kingairer said:
I think reading the transcipt vs hearing it could be telling. I am not a fan of fighting over the controls, which I think would only lead to worse outcomes. I am reminded of an ATR accident down in SJU (i think) were the senior captain tried to half takeover a bad landing and ended up taking a bad landing into a crash. I do think a call to ATC and calling a go around could have been effective. I do believe that a forceful "Captain, Go around!" on the second call, or calling the guys name (or calling him a name!) "Billybob!, go around" couldve been effective in taking the captain back out of the fight and into the moment. Of course one "go around" call shouldve been enough, but human factors of selective hearing or blocking something out could come into play. Or the guy is just a cowboy and does whatever he wants and none of this wouldve mattered.
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Yeah, I can't imagine trying to wrestle the controls from this guy would have resulted in a better outcome.
 
Soul Brotha' said:
Agreed. That CA had tunnel vision. Nothing was stopping him from landing.
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I'll actually believe the CA when he says he didn't hear the FO call the go around.

One of the first things our brain load sheds when under stress is our hearing. There are hundreds of examples of cops or soldiers in gunfights not hearing gunshots mere feet from their ears. If you think back to your CFI days, how many times did a new student complain about the radio not being loud enough? It wasn't the radio, or the headset, it was their brain turning their ears off.

Relevant video
 
USMCmech said:
I'll actually believe the CA when he says he didn't hear the FO call the go around.

One of the first things our brain load sheds when under stress is our hearing. There are hundreds of examples of cops or soldiers in gunfights not hearing gunshots mere feet from their ears. If you think back to your CFI days, how many times did a new student complain about the radio not being loud enough? It wasn't the radio, or the headset, it was their brain turning their ears off.

Relevant video
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It was a normal paced approach, right? If it was an emergency landing, one could see a case an emergency approach leading to tunnel vision. But a normal paced ILS approach should not lead to tunnel vision. I mean, right?
 
Roger Roger said:
Interesting to me how often in these accidents we speculate about the landing performance etc and then it turns out that the airplane landed halfway down the runway.
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Accident history backs that up. In the 737 arena, both Air India Express B737-800 overruns (Mangalore, Kozhikode).

The Mangalore is the one where the FO called for numerous go arounds while on approach and the CA decided to send it anyway.
 
Wardogg said:
And? Normal pace or not. Tunnel vision is just that.

Case in point. Guess what that warning horn you hear is all the way to touchdown.


View: https://youtu.be/5McECUtM8fw?si=5IZKeqKPraINAa1s
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These are GArpies. I would hope One Twenty Weenies are held to a higher standard. :)

Tunnel vision for times when you’re behind, emergency, work overload. Especially that last one. A normal approach into ROA, an ILS especially? About as cookie cutter as it can get.



I can appreciate fellow pilots. We rationalize everything. Rarely do we say, maybe he just sucks ass. No shortage of those pilots. :)
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
These are GArpies. I would hope One Twenty Weenies are held to a higher standard. :)

Tunnel vision for times when you’re behind, emergency, work overload. Especially that last one. A normal approach into ROA, an ILS especially? About as cookie cutter as it can get.



I can appreciate fellow pilots. We rationalize everything. Rarely do we say, maybe he just sucks ass. No shortage of those pilots. :)
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Airline pilots aren’t infallible. Regardless of what you tell yourself in the mirror every night.
 
I feel like I should collect my views on go-arounds vice unstable approaches and put them in a journal article that people will ignore, somewhere.
 
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