Commute Air Off Runway at ROA

Inverted said:
He might have frozen. Are you going to die because you didn't feel like wrestling the CA for the controls? Press the freaking TOGA button and let the CA fly it then. Do SOMETHING. They could have killed every single person on that airplane that day. They are LUCKY they the magic cement stopped them. If I fear I am going to go off the runway or worse, I am doing something. If you are at the point of commanding a go-around, you are assuming that you will not have a successful landing. I place blame on the FO here. Very little blame, but some blame.
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Sir that isn’t magic, it’s engineering.
 
The FO on the radio sounds like a kind, sweet kind of gal on the radio even when in the EMAS. I can’t imagine that being the kind of voice that yells MY CONTROLS and man handles the controls away from the doofus CA.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I kinda get it. Takes a special person to ignore two separate go around calls.

Especially when we are ingrained about no-fault go arounds, and how either can call for one and you must go around.
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When I said "odd" it was a reference to another thread (I made a mistake and assumed too much). JC is awesome.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
The FO on the radio sounds like a kind, sweet kind of gal on the radio even when in the EMAS. I can’t imagine that being the kind of voice that yells MY CONTROLS and man handles the controls away from the doofus CA.
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How does somebody's voice have anything to do with their ability to safely meet the requirements of their position?

Here... I'll even put it into a pop culture reference so you understand it.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAw-mONXsas
 
Inverted said:
He might have frozen. Are you going to die because you didn't feel like wrestling the CA for the controls? Press the freaking TOGA button and let the CA fly it then. Do SOMETHING. They could have killed every single person on that airplane that day. They are LUCKY they the magic cement stopped them. If I fear I am going to go off the runway or worse, I am doing something. If you are at the point of commanding a go-around, you are assuming that you will not have a successful landing. I place blame on the FO here. Very little blame, but some blame.
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I don’t blame her. That’s a really nasty situation.

Identify, Command, Intervene. But intervene doesn’t necessarily mean you literally John Wayne style slap the captain and take control at 10 feet above TDZE in a severe downpour.

If I’m ever unfortunate enough to be in that position, the next move after “go around” is ignored is transmitting “Roanoke tower, XYZ is going around”.


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GypsyPilot said:
I don’t blame her. That’s a really nasty situation.

Identify, Command, Intervene. But intervene doesn’t necessarily mean you literally John Wayne style slap the captain and take control at 10 feet above TDZE in a severe downpour.

If I’m ever unfortunate enough to be in that position, the next move after “go around” is ignored is transmitting “Roanoke tower, XYZ is going around”.


View attachment 86308
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Still teach using this
 
GypsyPilot said:
I don’t blame her. That’s a really nasty situation.

Identify, Command, Intervene. But intervene doesn’t necessarily mean you literally John Wayne style slap the captain and take control at 10 feet above TDZE in a severe downpour.

If I’m ever unfortunate enough to be in that position, the next move after “go around” is ignored is transmitting “Roanoke tower, XYZ is going around”.


View attachment 86308
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I remember that being the interview answer.

Reality is, if they aren’t responding to your voice directing a go around, twice, they probably aren’t going to be able to filter out a call to ATC saying we are going around either.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I remember that being the interview answer.

Reality is, if they aren’t responding to your voice directing a go around, twice, they probably aren’t going to be able to filter out a call to ATC saying we are going around either.
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Maybe, maybe not. The thing with telling ATC you intend to go around is that you’ve introduced another party into the audience. Looking at it from the perspective of “Cappy isn’t listening to the FO” I’d wager they’re probably gonna go around after announcing it to ATC because they know ATC is watching/expecting you to go around. If nothing is announced the it’s “shut up and color kid” while the captain continues the unstable approach and no one knows because you don’t have an audience expecting you to go around.

Now if the captain is just non responsive for some reason then it could go both ways but I agree calling a go around may not nudge them in that direction. It will help the PM case if things go tits up like it did in this instance.

As far as taking over the flight controls I feel like that’s been an age old interview question with a plethora of answers. I’d like to see that scenario introduced into CQ, as well as an unresponsive PF on takeoff.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
The FO on the radio sounds like a kind, sweet kind of gal on the radio even when in the EMAS. I can’t imagine that being the kind of voice that yells MY CONTROLS and man handles the controls away from the doofus CA.
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Sounds like something someone who would ignore the FO for sounding like a “sweet kind of gal” would say.

If you need to be yelled at in order to stop • up, you’re doing more than just something wrong…
 
In that scenario, fighting for controls in that terrain (and I’m pretty sure it would have been a fight) and weather would have been a recipe for disaster.

Keying the mic and calling going around would have been better. I think the CA would have landed anyway, but it would have helped the FOs case a little more.
 
DPApilot said:
Sounds like something someone who would ignore the FO for sounding like a “sweet kind of gal” would say.

If you need to be yelled at in order to stop • up, you’re doing more than just something wrong…
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I’m just telling you what is. Backed by incident/accident history.
 
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