Commercial Multi Initial

Future Cpt Kirk

Well-Known Member
Hey guys. I have my Commercial Multi Initial ride in about a week with an examiner new to our area who has a poor reputation and has been very very hard on other students so far... Any advice for someonme like this? Any things I should pay special attention to in my studying? Advice would be much appreciated! Thanks.

Mike
 
(1) Know the "commercial" stuff. A lot of people go into commercial rides prepared to do maneuvers, but without enough understanding of what a commercial pilot can and cannot do with their certificate.

(2) Focus a lot on the "multi" part of the ride. Know Vmc backwards and forwards. Know why and how the prop on a multi will go one way if oil pressure is lost and why it works differently with a single. Know why Vmc goes down as weight increases, and the answer isn't the common wrong answer that it has anything to do with momentum. Finally, if you know why Vmca is lower than Vmcg, you'll have a pretty good understanding of the trivia.

As far as the examiner, I hate preparing a a student for a specific examiner, but it really doesn't hurt to talk to their past applicants. That "bad reputation" most likely begins with poorly prepared applicants. Talk to them and ask what they had trouble answering and where the emphasis items were and then be prepared for questions in those areas.

Lastly, don't take what you hear about "bad reputations" too seriously. I've dug into enough such situations to find that the story from the other side often makes you wonder if you're even hearing two stories about the same event.
 
Thanks Houston. Will take all of that into account. In terms of the examiner, I have heard he likes to go very very in depth about the airplane.... to a point beyond Commercial Pilot knowledge requirements and infringing on A&P material. One of the other students recently took his private/instrument checkride and was asked the following (he was extremely well prepared and passed...it was an 8 hour checkride...I was there that day studying for my instrument checkride so I promise, that is no exaggeration):

An example of some of the questions asked on a private/instrument checkride oral:

"How many flutter bars are on each wing, how are they attached and how much do they weigh?"
"How many piano wires connect the ailerons to the yoke, the rudder to the peddals etc... How are they connected?"
"What tire pressure should be constant in the tires?"

And my personal favorite....

"If there is a stress crack on the wing surface, how do you know if an attempted repair has been conducted? (Answer: look for a stop drill hole. I know we are not required to know this.... I only know the answer from watching "Air Disasters" on the Nat Geo Channel).

This is just a small sample. Seems like overkill in my opinion... I will be reading the POH in addition to the normal studying... :-/
 
Wow! I sit through a lot of check rides and I've never heard airworthiness questions that got that down in the weeds. I'll bet if you look the guy up on the FAA's database he will have a mechanic certificate or a repairman certificate. I wouldn't know where to begin to study for a check that included questions at that level.

Of course it's one thing if he asks them. It's a whole other thing if he busts people for not knowing the answers to them. It's usually better to avoid getting in the spotlight, but if I were to bust a practical test over questions such as that, I'd request a retest by an FAA inspector. That is your right although I've never seen anyone exercise that right.

I'd have to know more details, but my guess is that he is asking but not busting people on not knowing. That may be his misguided way of attempting to pass on education or it could be some other reasons, none of which are a credit to an examiner. If he does go to that level of airworthiness detail and holds applicant's responsible for knowing the answers, then he would have a very high bust rate and that would undoubtedly get the FAA's attention one way or another. Heck, people couldn't even pass the retest.
 
If its not in the PTS you don't need to know it. I would not want to deal with some DPE going off script.

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If its not in the PTS you don't need to know it. I would not want to deal with some DPE going off script.

I believe that would roughly parallel the FAA's thinking on the subject.

Here is the relevant part of the applicable PTS:

Task B: Airworthiness Requirements (AMEL and AMES)

References: 14 CFR parts 39, 91; FAA-H-8083-25.
Objective: To determine that the applicant exhibits satisfactory knowledge of the elements related to airworthiness requirements by:
1. Explaining-
a. required instruments and equipment for day/night VFR.
b. procedures and limitations for determining airworthiness of the airplane with inoperative instruments and equipment with and without an MEL.
c. requirements and procedures for obtaining a special flight permit.
2. Locating and explaining-
a. airworthiness directives.
b. compliance records.
c. maintenance/inspection requirements.
d. appropriate record keeping.

How far the logic could be stretched is certainly arguable. Questions such as "how many static wicks can be missing" and "how many vortex generators can be missing" are pretty standard during type rating tests. But, how much does a flutter bar weigh seems to me (IMHO) to be a bit outside the need to know information for a pilot.
 
I believe that would roughly parallel the FAA's thinking on the subject.

Here is the relevant part of the applicable PTS:



How far the logic could be stretched is certainly arguable. Questions such as "how many static wicks can be missing" and "how many vortex generators can be missing" are pretty standard during type rating tests. But, how much does a flutter bar weigh seems to me (IMHO) to be a bit outside the need to know information for a pilot.
Type rating is ATP and therefore doesn't apply to this.

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I am not confused. I've just dealt with cowboy DPEs before. As an instructor I would call them into question when they deviated from the PTS.

That is why I'd rather do a checkride with the FSDO rather than a DPE.

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Guys,

Thanks for the input.

@ Houstin: Yes.... He was an A&P..... He's flown and worked on GA aircraft his entire career... Never set foot in an airliner or corporate jet. He's a newly minted DPE but I believe he also worked in the FSDO before.... Not sure if he did rides for them or not... So it is yet to be seen how crazy his fail rate could become. I just hope I don't help that number go up... :-/ I study hard and have done very well in the program so far (no busts... with a hard, but fair examiner), so I think I'll be ok. Just a bit of extra nerves from what I have heard about him. We'll see what he is really all about on Saturday...

MIke
 
Just remember, you can discontinue the check ride at your prerogative anytime prior to any "bust" notice. With these s questions, I am thankful that I at least know the tire pressure. Jeez.
 
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