Come on Dept of HLS

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/031017/daf026_1.html

So someone leaves behind some stuff on two SWA jets that were 'excepted materials' with notes saying that security isn't tight. Box cutters, clay and bleach.

Fine.

So the Department of Homeland Security says that all commercial jets are going to have security sweeps done by security personnel.

Umm, you mean that guy who gets on my jet in ATL with a security vest, a newspaper and a walkie talkie that sits there and works on a crossword puzzle while the cabin groomers are cleaning the jet around him?

THAT'S America's protection against terrorism?

Egads, Tom Ridge.
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
Sshhhhhh.

You don't want to scare the sheep .. err public by telling 'em what the TSA and DHS really does.
 

A300Capt

Freight Dawg
We, in the biz, all know it's just window dressing to make Joe flying public feel all warm and fuzzy no matter how stupid it might be.
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
It's like, do I speak up and cause a fury and hopefullly someone'll make a positive change? Or do I just grin & bear it, hoping that nothing ever happens again.

Man o man, what to do.
 

triplec76

Well-Known Member
Doug, I respect you thoroughly and mean no disrespect whatsoever, but I think that is one of the least smart things Ive seen you say on this forum. If you think the problem is bad enough to warrant action, then there is no question of whether you want to do something about it. I would hate to see you or someone else lose their job over it, but whats that worth? The price of more lives? The industry would crumble for sure if there were any more attacks.

Im not saying you should go around yelling "TSA is baaaaaad", but at the very least get the problems handled that you personally come in contact with. You are the captain of your ship, right? Everything that happens on that aircraft is ultimately your responsibility, right? How would you feel if it was your aircraft that had weapons/chemicals on board and you knew just before that flight you had seen the security guy sitting in a first class seat doing a crossword puzzle, would you feel any more responsible?

Again Doug, I mean absolutely no disrespect at all. I just couldnt believe I saw you say that after everything the airline industry has been through. It just seemed to me that you were contemplating NOT saying anything because it might cause a ripple. I dont agree with that, so that is why I posted this.
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
The most that a crewmember can do is to do his best job to insure his flight takes off safely with no security issues.

The way the system is set up, I really have zero pull or zero input outside of the safe operation of my specific jet. I think the primary problem is that we've created a big budget beast where most of the people that are involved are more interested in maintaining their budget rather than sitting down and holding an industry-wide syposium on changes that can be made to make air travel safe.

The changes that need to be made, from the perspective of people that use the system on a daily basis and sees all of the "behind the scenes" stuff haven't been made and haven't sparked the interest of the federal government or airline industry.
 

Phoenix_Son

New Member
Be thoughtful about it, though. Who could you speak up to? Is this a plane-level issue? A hub-level issue? A Delta issue? I don't think writing a letter to your Congressman would be an effective first step...

[Edit] Doug seems to have already answered this. What can you do on your plane? [/Edit]
 

A300Capt

Freight Dawg
[ QUOTE ]
You are the captain of your ship, right? Everything that happens on that aircraft is ultimately your responsibility, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Doug's a First Officer, not the Capt.
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
It all comes down from the top. An airline will refer you to the airport authority, the airport authority will refer you to the TSA, the TSA will refer you to the DHLS, the DHLS will probably figure you're just another union thug or disgruntled/overpaid/underworked/mealy-mouthed pilot.
 

triplec76

Well-Known Member
I agree that your reports would probably be swept under the rug or disappear completely. Its a shame that Homeland Security seems more like a pacifying front than a working arm of our government. I cant say that I disagree with what everyone has said, but for me at least, it would be peace of mind that I said something.
 

tonyw

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
It all comes down from the top. An airline will refer you to the airport authority, the airport authority will refer you to the TSA, the TSA will refer you to the DHLS, the DHLS will probably figure you're just another union thug or disgruntled/overpaid/underworked/mealy-mouthed pilot.

[/ QUOTE ]

And then they may deem you a security risk and you'll lose your livelihood. Right now, I have no problem with sending letters to my reps in Congress telling them exactly what I think about the actions of the TSA, especially when it comes to GA.

But if I'm depending on having a ticket to pay my bills, you can bet I'll probably pipe down.

God, that kind of sounds like something someone would have said in Nazi Germany, doesn't it? I know that Hitler's thugs are nasty people, but since I might end up in a jail with no trial and no recourse if I say that, I think I'll shut up.

Anyway, the thing that really pisses me off about this whole "war" on terrorism is that they keep on sending out useless "warnings." We have no specific information, no specific targets, but we think you should be alert.

No s**t, Sherlock? You've been telling us to stay alert to suspicious behavior and people for more than two years now. And without giving specific information, all you do is scare people. Well, probably not anymore, since the terrorist alerts are like the boy crying wolf.
 

pkloop

New Member
[ QUOTE ]


But if I'm depending on having a ticket to pay my bills, you can bet I'll probably pipe down.[ QUOTE ]


God, that kind of sounds like something someone would have said in Nazi Germany, doesn't it? I know that Hitler's thugs are nasty people, but since I might end up in a jail with no trial and no recourse if I say that, I think I'll shut up.


[/ QUOTE ]

And if thats how you feel and thats what you do, your a spineless selfish person. If your so outraged by all this then get off your a&& and do something other then firing out letters that never get read.
 

kellwolf

Piece of Trash
[ QUOTE ]
And if thats how you feel and thats what you do, your a spineless selfish person. If your so outraged by all this then get off your a&& and do something other then firing out letters that never get read.

[/ QUOTE ]

First off, I think that was a bit harsh. I can see his point as far as comparing HDLS to Nazi Germany. Hell, I've done it myself. Germany in the 1930-40s, if you spoke your mind against the government, you were put in a 'political re-education' camp. What would you suggest doing? Raving on the streets that the DHLS is wrong? Boycotting TSA at the airport? The best thing you can do is write or e-mail congress, especially the ones involved with budget issues. Isn't that why we elect them in the first place? If those things don't work, don't vote for them the next time around. Anything too extremist will get your pilot's license pulled since they will no doubt deem you a security threat. Oh, but you could always appeal to the same people that took it in the first place....
 

pkloop

New Member
You're right . Probably to harsh. Don't claim to have all the answers myself. However not speaking up or rolling over out of fear or reprecusions is in my view spineless. Thats all I'm saying. The Nazi comparisons are getting old. This is not Germany in the 30's or 40's nor are we living under that kind of repression. And yes I know "those who fail to learn from history are condemed to repeat it" but how about working with AOPA or starting another grass roots pilot org to get the point out about this stuff. Firing off letters isn't enough. Elections are next year, sure. But if he's that upset it seems to me that just writing letters isn't enough
 

Kristie

Mama Bear....
Staff member
question is - is there a TSA whistle blower website up yet? even better - is there someone around who would want to be in charge of that??? or maybe there's one already around that can be linked to??

that way it'd all be anonymous and nobody would lose their jobs! but if there were enough problems, homeland security or whoever the heck is in charge now - would have no choice but to take action...
 

Phoenix_Son

New Member
"A 20-year-old student from North Carolina was being held Friday in connection with the finding of box cutters and other suspicious materials on a Southwest Airlines plane at Houston's Hobby Airport and another one in New Orleans, the FBI said Friday.

Officials said the man, who has not been charged, placed the items on the planes in an apparent attempt to show gaps in airport security measures."

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1017planes-searched17-ON.html
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Officials said the man, who has not been charged, placed the items on the planes in an apparent attempt to show gaps in airport security measures."

[/ QUOTE ]

Ha, that takes some balls....
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
However not speaking up or rolling over out of fear or reprecusions is in my view spineless.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your view, huh? I can tell you right now that "your view" isn't going to mean jack to a lot of people on here. Why? Because it sure is easy for you to say when your livelyhood doesn't depend on a piece of paper that the TSA can take away if they deem you a threat. And guess who you appeal to? Thats right, the TSA. So watch who you call spineless.
 

mpenguin1

Well-Known Member
I was just watching CNN & the reporter said that the security procedures need to get tighter including screening for ground workers. The reporter said that ground workers constantly enter the airplanes without being screened, oh hell, CNN what is your problem. Does CNN expect ground workers to be patted down before getting on a flight?
 
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