Comair pilots approve 9%-23% pay cut

It is interesting to see, that while on an engineering forum, people have similar views of their industry just as you guys do of the airline industry. We all talk about the "it ain't what it used to be", "management is always screwing us", and etc. Regardless, some people, just like some do here, say that what it matters is that your doing what you love, which is what's important. They also say how engineering has lost its prestige and engineers aren't looked at the same way anymore. It's all relative.

Just an observation I thought was interesting.
 
I share a few cats and a house with an engineer. I hear about it all the time!

Sadly, you'll rarely hear an engineer say "Go into engineering!"
 
meritflyer said:
There is nothing better than a good company that appreciates you like Costco for instance.
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I'm tipsy, so this may not make sense. But it is interesting that you brought up Costco. The Wall Street geniuses were all picking on Costco's execs, saying they weren't taking shareholders into consideration and they should be more like Wal-Mart. Well, the execs basically said, we own about ten percent of the stock, of course, we're looking out for the shareholders.

And guess what? They said, hmmm, if I give people health care and pay them decently, they'll stay with me, and I'll save money on turnover.

All you have to do is look at the ROI on Wal-Mart versus Costco.
 
Mr_Creepy said:
All economy/market trends and indicators are positive right now.

I agree with meritflyer - it's the industry. What used to be a glamorous, dashing and high paid job is none of the above..

... and I blame the pilot factory schools.
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I can see why you would say that and I think you've got something there! if not for the flight academy's making a pact with the airlines to get their students full time regional jobs at 200-500TT...with that, they probably say "well, we'll get you in at a low time but you'll have to accept the low wage along with it" and there we go.
 
Kristie said:
I can see why you would say that and I think you've got something there! if not for the flight academy's making a pact with the airlines to get their students full time regional jobs at 200-500TT...with that, they probably say "well, we'll get you in at a low time but you'll have to accept the low wage along with it" and there we go.
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Kristie, As or Friend Iain would say ...

"Spot on!"
 
BCTAv8r said:
It is interesting to see, that while on an engineering forum, people have similar views of their industry just as you guys do of the airline industry. We all talk about the "it ain't what it used to be", "management is always screwing us", and etc. Regardless, some people, just like some do here, say that what it matters is that your doing what you love, which is what's important. They also say how engineering has lost its prestige and engineers aren't looked at the same way anymore. It's all relative.

Just an observation I thought was interesting.
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Brian re-read my previous post and you will see that I said that it's not just confined to this one industry.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Brian re-read my previous post and you will see that I said that it's not just confined to this one industry.
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Frankly, I didn't even read this post. I just looked over it and decided to share this bit of info I found. If the industry problems are not confined to solely aviation, then why attempt to do something else when it's not gonna be that much different and your not even doing something you truly are happy with? I have a friend whose dad is a car salesman and her parents are divorced because her dad is always gone. I guess any job in which someone wants to succeed in, will take more time away than expected.

I actually wouldn't mind not getting paid that much and doing what Harrison Ford did in the movie 7 days 6 nights. :nana2:
 
alphaone said:
Seriously though, anyone want to take bets on if Comair will be around for another year?
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The name probably will be. The existing airline that we know.... probably not.
 
Jason said:
I'd also like to comment on your "That's nice" comment to John. I used to be hard line ALPA and when I was single with no responsibilities to anyone except myself I was ready to "STFD" for something as simple as the company reducing the number of crew meals we got - let alone a pay decrease - but as I've grown up my outlook on things have changed - and your's will too at some point...some day you're going to wake up and find yourself with a wife and a baby to support with a mortgage, student loan, and day care bills to pay and I guarantee you that having a job will become more important than a 9% reduction in pay. That's just the way it is...I know, I know....you're going to tell me that someone has to take stand to stop it blah blah blah...I've read "Flying The Line" too but they need to print a new version called "Flying The Line in the New Century" becuase unfortunatley I don't think this industry will ever return to the "glory days" of the past.
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I've never read Flying The Line, so I don't know about that. What I do know is that when I do have a family to support, I want to make a respectable wage so that I can support them. As a regional FO, even at my current company, that is a very hard thing to do with wages and benefits as they are. To turn around and reduce them further is ridiculous.

Yes, when you are 45 years old with three kids, a mortgage, and a car payment, a 9% pay cut as a Captain with 10 years at the company is better than being unemployed. But a 9% pay cut when you're making $20,000 a year is just another kick while you're down.

Do you really think that with these paycuts that Delta won't sell off Comair and pull their planes? 9% will not make the difference. It might help a bit, but if they really don't want Comair, they won't have Comair.

I'm sorry, but I want to be paid appropriately in this career. I don't want to tell my kids they need to get scholarships or they aren't going to college. I don't want to collect coupons and food stamps so we can eat. I don't want to say "sorry, we can't turn the heat above 67 degrees" because we can't afford the bills. That is no way to live. Call me stuck-up if you like, but I'd rather go find something else to do, even later in life, than take cuts from already ridiculously low pay.

Must just be my "inexperience" with life.
 
"I'm sorry, but I want to be paid appropriately in this career."

Well, part of the problem is how do you define appropriately? Do you base it off of how much money you have paid for training? How much someone got paid previously in the same career? How do you gauge what is "appropriate" money? When the airlines catered to only the wealthy and hired mostly military pilots, and airlines were still regulated, and a million other variables were in the equation, of course money was better. There were higher fares, more experienced and older pilots, less competition, etc... Now the airlines cater to the lower income bracket mostly, hire pilots who have under 1000tt and are 20, have to fight it out with dozens of other carriers for the same customers, etc...

Unfortunately, I heavily doubt that the "golden age" of aviation will ever come back. And I doubt that most of you really want it to. All you are looking at is the money and not everything that goes along with the ability to pay pilots high wages.

I decided at 32 to pursue my dream of flying for a living. I have no rose colored glasses on. I know that it is a hard road. I left a good paying job selling Harleys to go back to flying. The thing that I tell people is pursue flying as a career because you love it and not because you want to work 10-15 days a month and make $250k a year. Decide what you want out of life, make the decision with both eyes open, and don't limit yourself to the airlines. There are alot of jobs out there that, if you LOVE flying, will provide you with a livable wage. Maybe you won't be flying the "big jets" but really, after you burn out making $20k a year, how many of you will be flying them anyway?

Rant over.

BTW: I read this somewhere, don't really remember where. The AVERAGE lawyer in Florida makes $50k per year. And they pay on average ALOT more than most pilots do for schooling.
 
I think $42k per year should be the minimum rj f/o wage. This would allow you to bring home $2500 per month. If this can't happen at the regionals...then every pilot should be in favor of scope...get the airplanes at the majors...and start paying everyone a livable wage.
 
Word on the street, (friend of mine flys for comair) Delta is looking to DUMP comair NOW! I hope it happens, Comair has never really wanted any part of Delta ever!
 
FlyChicaga said:
I don't want to say "sorry, we can't turn the heat above 67 degrees" because we can't afford the bills. That is no way to live. Call me stuck-up if you like, but I'd rather go find something else to do, even later in life, than take cuts from already ridiculously low pay.

Must just be my "inexperience" with life.
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You wouldn't like it in my house....I keep it at 58 degrees, would be colder but my wife would kick me in the nuts. Flippin heating bills!!!
 
DCApilot2006 said:
Comair has never really wanted any part of Delta ever!
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Nevermind the scope lawsuit or some demanding date-of-hire after the purchase...
 
You guys whining about higher pay are the problem

I have seen it here and other boards for years since I decided I would become an airline pilot. You all talk about how you deserve to make a good wage. Guess what, you don't deserve to make anymore than the company you work for is willing to pay you and that ain't a whole heck of a lot right now. Thank god for Doug, Eagle, Tenney and a very small group of others on here who tell it like it is and allowed me to realize that while I might enjoy flying an airliner, I certainly am not willing to do it for the money offered. I have no right to a job as a pilot making good money. CEO's can make what they want because they are in charge. If the shareholders and board are stupid enough to pay a CEO too high money, then good for the CEO. If an airline is stupid enough to pay all of you way too much money than they have to (thanks to all the wannabes that will do it for gas money) then they are being stupid and good for you. Perhaps it is the Dickle Number 12 talking but I, as a guy who wanted as much as any of you wanted to be an airline pilot. a guy who constantly imagines what it must be like as I work my job that I hate but that pays me very well because not many people have the skills or the willingness to do it, am quite sick of hearing you guys who are going ahead with the dream to talk about how you DESERVE health insurance, or you DESERVE more money. You don't deserve any more than you are able to get out of your employer. TonyW talks all the time about taking what he can get from his employer and for the first time I agree. You take what you can get. As much as you possibly can, because in bad times, you can dang well bet they are going to take from you, just like all you pilots now are getting taken.

Our system isn't screwed up Max. It is the most efficient system known to man. Capitalism works. The rich get richer because normally they are smarter and make better decisions than the poor. They also have the advantage of being able to afford more mistakes. So what. Deal with it. Life isn't fair. Play your hand as best you can. If you are unhappy with where you started in life, blame your parents. The middle class is the kind of gray area which is why you see people in the middle class move up and you see many move down normally based on their choices in life.

I know I am rambling but it is hard to stay coherent when there are two of every character on the screen. I am just sick and tired of hearing you people whine when if you have been a member of this board for any length of time at all, you should have known that the pay was going to stink. I thank god for this board (and I don't even believe in god... :) ) You don't like what you are getting paid for what you do then get out of the industry. It is the only thing that will eventually fix the pay and lifestyle issues. The only people who I feel bad for regarding pay rates in this industry are those guys who have been in it for a while. They have devoted a significant portion of their life to this career and I feel bad that a good number of them aren’t getting the reward they figured they would get out of it.

That’s it. I am off to get more Whisky!
 
shooter13 said:
I am quite sick of hearing you guys who are going ahead with the dream to talk about how you DESERVE health insurance, or you DESERVE more money. You don't deserve any more than you are able to get out of your employer.

Ummmm I don't know about you...but I DESERVE health insurance. I think that your family does as well.


Our system isn't screwed up Max. It is the most efficient system known to man. Capitalism works. The rich get richer because normally they are smarter and make better decisions than the poor. They also have the advantage of being able to afford more mistakes. So what. Deal with it. Life isn't fair. Play your hand as best you can. If you are unhappy with where you started in life, blame your parents. The middle class is the kind of gray area which is why you see people in the middle class move up and you see many move down normally based on their choices in life.
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Capitalism does work for the rich! The rich get richer by oppression of the poor and middle class. Believe it or not the decked is stacked against you unless you are born with a silver spoon in your mouth or blue blood.

The rich stay rich by keeping those "up and comers" in a social class beneath them. Yea sure every once ina while they allow one or two people to strike it rich and work the system of captialism.

But...if they "the man" let everyone and their mother strike it rich then the socio-economic lines would be blurred. We'd no longer have "classes" such as rich,middle class,or poor and everyone would be in the same boat economically. Inflation would be rampant and that candy bar at Superpumper that now cost .79 would be $20.00 and change.

So no it's not about decsions or life choices the American dream is a lie like the lottery. You hope your the next one to strike it rich and that keeps you playing. Likewise with our system you work yourself to the bone trying to make that extra scratch but what your really doing is putting more money in someone elses pocket making them all that more richer. Believe it or not there is an economic glass ceiling and the middle class has reached it.
 
The way I see it is this. We've always had the ruling class and the peasants. Back when we had kings, we called the ruling class royalty, now, it's the super wealthy. The peasants used to be the farmers, now it's the middle class.

As long as the ruling class throws enough crumbs to the peasants, there's no problems. And folks, they're crumbs. Even the most "overpaid" pilot in the glory days took home, what, $300K a year? Compared to execs taking home $30 million, it's chump change.

But sometimes, the ruling class gets too greedy, and the peasants revolt. I think we're starting to get to that stage now.
 
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