Comair now 600/100

they will be charging for this
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This is hilarious. I can't believe people are ASSUMING this much :insane: !

A little history: Back 2003 and prior almost all of the "regional" airlines had some pretty high mins. The place I'm at was at 2500 TT, 1000 multi, and 500 turbine. Most folks hired into the "commuters" had extensive 135 and multi time. The training programs were designed around guys that had previous 121 and 135 time flying larger and possibly turbine powered aircraft then the CFI's currently hired at most regionals nowadays do.

According to folks in the training department, my company has been wanting to overhaul their indoc/systems class to better fit the type of people getting hired into classes, just like Comair is doing.

From reading the Press Release, it seems to me this is what Comair is talking about doing, they just said it in 20,000 words instead of saying "we lowered our mins, apply here".

In addition, Comair cannot just implement a PFT type operation without the approval of the union. This is a clause that is in other ALPA carriers contracts (in the general section):

A. A pilot will not be required to pay for the use of any equipment required for training or equipment used in scheduled operations, e.g., maps, enroute charts, approach plates, Coast and Geodetic or Jeppesen Manuals, etc. The cost of any training required of a pilot will be borne by the Company. The Company will supply one (1) set of approach plates and updates for each pilot who will be responsible for keeping them current.
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So, to those who are assuming, please don't do so. Call 859-767-2876 and ask for Lori the pilot recruiter.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
. So they'll lower their cost or lease rates to make their CASM low enough to (maybe) make them attractive to cargo companies.
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Maybe, but I doubt it. Companies like AMF, Air Cargo Carriers, Mountain Air Cargo, etc. (basically all of the UPS/DHL/FedEx feeders) have scope limitations (actually it would the mainline that would have the scope...). I remember hearing somewhere that ALL jet aircraft flown for UPS must be flown with mainline pilots. I wouldn't doubt if similar clauses were in DHL (Airborne/Astar/???) and FedEx contracts.

This is why you see FedEx/UPS feeders flying large turboprop aircraft (ATR, Mertro, Shorts) but no jets.

Also, RJ's don't carry nearly as much bulk as those turboprops do, they would only get to their destination a few minutes earlier than the turboprop, and they'd burn a heck of a lot more gas doing it. In short, I'll never happen :D!
 
wheelsup said:
This is hilarious. I can't believe people are ASSUMING this much :insane: !

A little history: Back 2003 and prior almost all of the "regional" airlines had some pretty high mins. The place I'm at was at 2500 TT, 1000 multi, and 500 turbine. Most folks hired into the "commuters" had extensive 135 and multi time. The training programs were designed around guys that had previous 121 and 135 time flying larger and possibly turbine powered aircraft then the CFI's currently hired at most regionals nowadays do...
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So, tell me how much of the contracts have bankrupt carriers followed? And you really believe these carriers are going to sit there out of the kindness of their hearts for free and sending people to an RJ course, then turn around and send them through indoc? Hahahaha. That's hilarious!!!

Like I said before, if it's free, knock yourself out. My bet is on them finding a way around the ALPA contract wording and charging, saying these people are not employees yet, or some crap.

Maybe since I'm not in the airlines, I don't know how they operate and haven't been watching them since 1991, but I don't trust them as much as you do. Just my observations.

I'm done. Have fun and good luck out there.
 
Uh, what if they get techically hired by say a holding company that owns the airline, then upon completion of the training, they get hired at the airline? Sounds like a way to side step the "company pays for training" clause in the contract. Might not work for Comair since their holding company is more or less Delta, but I could see it at other regionals. There's also the banktuptcy thing where they could get the contract tossed anyway.
 
txpilot said:
So, tell me how much of the contracts have bankrupt carriers followed? And you really believe these carriers are going to sit there out of the kindness of their hearts for free and sending people to an RJ course, then turn around and send them through indoc? Hahahaha. That's hilarious!!!
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If you want to know from the horses mouth if they are charging new hires for this, please call the number I posted. Until then, please don't post things like "as far as I know, they will be charging for it". That is all I am asking for here. Let's stick to facts here.

"Bankrupt" (and I use that term loosely) carriers still need to run new hire classes as attrition picks up. The new hires aren't hired under imposed terms but under the current ALPA contract.

From the press release, they won't be sending people to this RJ course first, it will be intertwined (sp?) in their new hire training. I think you are making this out to be more complicated then it actually is. They need people in the seats; they are using other training avenues available to lower the TT requirements. The ethics of them doing that are another debate, however.
 
FLpilot said:
I'm afraid I don't quite follow you?
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No worries, the dishonest leadership of these airlines. Just makes me sick. And the Union isn't helping in this aspect. . . the flop over and play did union mentality is hopefully out the door with the departure of Worthless.

As well as the lies of the FAA when it came to this years contract negotiations. Just sick.
 
I'm not at all sure how you guys come to the conclusion that Comair is becoming PFT??? They clearly state that they are PROVIDING the transition training. They don't charge for it, and I don't even think they have a training contract.

Also, to answer merit's question. The current most junior capt has a hire date of 2/02. So currently they're showing 4 years. However, as has been stated already, your mileage might vary.

HTH,
 
Jury's till out IMO on whether they're providing it free or for a charge. ATP PROVIDES instruction for a CMEL, but they don't do it for free. I find it hard to believe that a company in bankruptcy looking to get its union contracts tossed can convince the court that it can give extra training to new hires for free. If it is free, then more power to them. If not, it's just a return to the old days of Comair when you had to pay for your training then.
 
2/02 is more like over 4.5 years Its 11/06 now, 4years, 8 months to be exact. That guy is also in class making FO pay right now.

Hey CMR is only PFT if you have less than 1200/200 as far as I see this stuff. Of course that will be waived in special circumstances. I.e. the CPs son etc.

Wheels: As far as the Union goes I dont think they can do much since I bet that he becomes an Pilot for the company until he becomes an "employee" when he starts the normal class. I would check the definitions in your contract to be for certain at your airline.
 
Oh hell, you can tell a bankrupcy judge, "Yellow toe nails, yellow toe nails, sign this!" and they'll pretty much do it.
 
OldTownPilot said:
Hey CMR is only PFT if you have less than 1200/200 as far as I see this stuff. Of course that will be waived in special circumstances. I.e. the CPs son etc.
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Let me guess, you haven't called the recruiter to ask her, have you? Didn't think so.

If you folks on here want to point your noses toward the sky and look down upon the Comair pilots, I can't stop you. If you won't even do the most basic thing like pick up a phone and dial a number I've already posted I guess I shouldn't expect much :D!
 
OldTownPilot said:
Wheels: As far as the Union goes I dont think they can do much since I bet that he becomes an Pilot for the company until he becomes an "employee" when he starts the normal class. I would check the definitions in your contract to be for certain at your airline.
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There are plenty of things the company can do to get around that. Sorta like saying the pilots are "independent contractors" unitl they pass the checkride (which is when they become an employee) so they aren't subject to the 75 hour minimum pay or accruing seniority. Oh wait, that's here. :)
 
kellwolf said:
There are plenty of things the company can do to get around that. Sorta like saying the pilots are "independent contractors" unitl they pass the checkride (which is when they become an employee) so they aren't subject to the 75 hour minimum pay or accruing seniority. Oh wait, that's here. :)
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Sorry I havent been on all this, if someone will PM me the info I will call and see what it would take for me to get on with CMR.
 
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