Comair "big" announcement
- Thread starter N30TN
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Trip7
Well-Known Member
It's now a take it or leave it offer. Looks like there is ZERO chance of one list. Didn't hurt to try. However it will hurt bigtime if XJT keeps trying. One list would create labor strife because SKW has a 2000+ pilot group that for the most part, wants absolutely nothing to do with a union.
ASA and XJT are much better off together than alone. Especially XJT with their financial situation. Nobody wants to see a 2000+ pilot group all lose their jobs.
Inc has secured a long term contract with CAL including additional aircraft. XJT is recalling. Let's take all that energy and apply It towards an industry leading contract with industry leading scope protection against whipsaw.
It is in XJT's pilot's 'best interests' to waive the successorship clause. The ASA MEC has agreed with the merger and is ready to proceed. All eyes are now on the XJT MEC. Our hand is out. Take it or leave it.
Baronman
Well-Known Member
The process is still just getting started. What did you think, Uncle Jerry would just come out and give in to one list? Of course not. And you actually thought that our MEC would do the same? Just give in to Uncle Jerry's wishes and forget the contract? Uncle Jerry may be a friend to you, but to me he's just another airline stooge who'd be more than happy to see me flying a 90 seat RJ for $50/hr with substandard health care.
Fact is that Uncle Jerry wants this to happen. He doesn't want to wait 2 years when the whole landscape is different. Sure there are potential upsides for us as well. But I'd be HUGELY disappointed in my MEC if they chose to throw away that aspect of the contract without some major concession on Skywest's part.
SmitteyB
Well-Known Member
Keep fighting the good fight, XJT.
Skywest will be ALPA before I die...I guarantee it.
Captain_Bob
Well-Known Member
I don't even know where to start with this one...
Did you do any research before posting this? Do you really think JA is just going to drop the deal because of one clause in our contract?? A deal that will give him over a 50%+ share of all the regional flying of the new UAL? Including access to all the XR's, and the "potential" growth? This deal will make his company the largest regional overnight, all for @ $30 million cash. That's less than two XR's.
XJT is a steal for what JA is paying for it... and for everything that he is getting, it's doubtful that he would just walk on the deal. Sure... he's going to fight it. He'd be a fool not to. It's definitely going to get ugly during the next few months... but that's expected.
I understand that you believe "your" hand is out. But it's really JA's hand... and he's got his fingers crossed behind his back as he's offering us a handshake.
Have you spoken with your MEC? If you have... then you would know that our negotiations at this point are "mutually" beneficial to us and ASA. To simply drop a scope clause that was written for the specific purpose of preventing this exact scenario would be shameful. It would be an insult to those who helped shape this company and went to bat for us to create one of the leading regional contracts of it's time. Especially when you consider what we gave up to get this clause.
Your ASA MEC knows that we can negotiate... they know that our QOL provisions are top notch... they know that we can work together to cherry pick the best of each of our contracts (read: negotiate) to better both of our groups. Just think about the possibility of negotiations of a pilot group of 7000 strong.
Our hand is out... we worked hard to create a tool that can make it happen. A tool that will most likely never be able to be negotiated again in this economic environment. This is a once in lifetime opportunity for 7000 pilots. We'd love to have you on board.
Take it... or leave it.
Bob
[modhat]People can post what they desire. However it might helpful to all to denote what is fact and what is rumor/opinion/thought, when posting information that can sound definitive. Especially potentially volatile or heavily impacting information such as negotiations, mergers/acquisitions, etc.[/modhat]
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
WTF? "our hands are out"? As pilots we have nothing to do with this on the acey side. Saying things like this is only going to make us all sound like arrogant bags that drink the koolaid.
I am excited to be combining with the xjt pilot group, but this isn't a case of us helping them out. This is a case of our management groups doing something and both of us being stuck in the middle.
They have an industry leading contract with industry leading scope. I believe that's the "problem"
Don't give in guys. It's not worth it. Without job security...what's the point?
CRJDriver
Well-Known Member
Let's clarify this a little... He is the former COO at Freedom Airlines and is now the VP of Aircraft Operations at Comair replacing Dave Soaper.
OldTownPilot
Well-Known Member
CRJ-900 Freedom way back, or the more recent ERJ Freedom?
Baronman
Well-Known Member
No kidding. You would thing ASAers would be happy that this merger could be the catalyst necessary to merge all three. Fortunately it's something included in the XJT pilot contract. It wasn't in ASA's previous contract thus landing you in a predicament where your sister company (competitor) is non-union. Sure, everyone has played fairly nicely thus far, but the two haven't been together that long.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
Have you read the latest update from the MEC? The ASA MEC is fine with the merger and ready to proceed as long as XJT is on board. That is what I mean by our hand is out.
"Without job security...what's the point?" BH and JA sat down with both MECs and said in the Transition Agreement protections will be given to prevent whipsaw. But they will not merge 3 seniority lists a cause MASSIVE labor unrest.
"It's not worth it"
It very well may be for the careers of 2000+ XJT pilots. A good argument can be made that XJT is on the road to bankruptcy. There own management has stated they can't make money in their present state
I do want one list. I also want to be an NBA all star. Both are unrealistic goals. We have to be realistic and do whats best for our future. A combined XJT and ASA along with an industry leading contract and scope protection is much better than blowing up this deal over one list with a pilot group that wants nothing to do with us.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
Yes I did research Bob. JA will under no circumstance merge all three. There is absolutely zero chance at that. Why, because the non-union pilots at Skywest would revolt and JA's happy regional world would turn into US Airways: The regional version. We already have a mini example of that right here on JC with a SKW pilot wanting a staple of everyone below SKW. 7000 strong? If all three were union than absolutely! But its more like 7000 fighting each other. JA would rather kill the deal than deal with months or years of labor unrest.
If Skywest was ALPA there would be absolutely no reason not to merge the lists.
Its best that XJT and ASA together, devote our time and energy to realistic goals we can achieve, an industry leading contract along with industry leading scope protection.
Remember, this is not a once in a lifetime opportunity. This battle over integrating SKW is by no means over. Eventually it will happen. But you have to crawl before you can walk. Going for the homerun now will certainly end up in a strikeout.
Captain_Bob
Well-Known Member
Not necessarily true. Of course he's going to indicate that that is the case... but it's nothing more that posturing at this point. It's still way too early to tell what he would actually do or not do in order to become the world's largest regional.
From your latest MEC news: (bolded by me)
This statement is JA and Holt saying that we (XJT) would have to accept the terms in order for the deal to go through. This is exactly the position we want to be in based on our scope. This isn't a lost cause by any stretch of the imagination. JA stating that he would "likely" withdraw is far from saying that he "will". (do you guys have the same CRM discussions as we do about the meaning of the words "would, should, may, will"?)
If you've been involved, followed, or even read about contract negotiations then this is by the playbook. Management threatens, we negotiate.
Again... it's way too early in the process to "give up" anything right now.
This situation is realistic. SkyWest has acknowledged that our contract holds water. They have threatened to pull out of the deal if we don't concede. We are talking with ALPA and our attorney's as to what our next step will be... this is the process... this is negotiating... and this is completely normal. It's what 2400 of our pilots agreed to and we would expect nothing less.
If the deal goes south, then we are simply back on our own with $100,000,000 in the bank and several years to make our company profitable again. I don't see that as a "worse case scenario" of 2400 pilots on the street. ASA thinking that they are "saving" us is just nuts. We actually have the opportunity to save ourselves as well as ASA and SKYW from becoming direct competitors working for the same management team. Not understanding the full implications of that is "just nuts".
Oh yeah... I forgot to mention... we already have "industry leading scope protection".
I'd like to suggest the following reading: How evolution can allow for developmental leaps, or for more fun... just watch the X-Men.
Basically, my point is that it sometimes takes only one small anomaly or genetic mutation to allow evolution to leap. Possibly even "running" before "crawling".
Well... our scope clause is that "genetic mutation" in the regional contract world.
Hold on... it's going to be a wild ride.
Please excuse my lack on knowledge on this matter, as I am on the outside, looking in. I do have a question.
Is it not in the best interest of all three pilot groups; SkyWest, ASA and ExpressJet to combine into one list and one contract? It seems to me that if you have three separate contracts and three separate pilot groups, all flying for the same mainline partners, under one management group, it is going to spell potential trouble for the pilot groups down the road. I can see the situation unfolding now, when a CBA or contract comes up for one group/airline and management starts threatening to remove flying and airplanes from airline A to airline B, if airline A doesn't keep their costs at a certain level.
Is the combining of the regionals, as we are seeing, not a good thing? I realize that the merging of lists and negotiationg a single contract for multiple pilot groups is probably not fun and likely a tedious thing. Not everyone will be happy and many will be protective of their particular airline. It seems that it is one step closer, however, to a national seniority list, that many would like to see. It would also create less competition and possibly more security. Am I overthinking that or being overly optimistic? What are your guys thoughts on this?
I understand the above is probably exactly what you guys are working on. I hope it all works out for the best for all groups. As someone on the outside, looking in, just can't help but wonder how this may effect me getting into the industry down the road.
Is it not in the best interest of all three pilot groups; SkyWest, ASA and ExpressJet to combine into one list and one contract? It seems to me that if you have three separate contracts and three separate pilot groups, all flying for the same mainline partners, under one management group, it is going to spell potential trouble for the pilot groups down the road. I can see the situation unfolding now, when a CBA or contract comes up for one group/airline and management starts threatening to remove flying and airplanes from airline A to airline B, if airline A doesn't keep their costs at a certain level.
Is the combining of the regionals, as we are seeing, not a good thing? I realize that the merging of lists and negotiationg a single contract for multiple pilot groups is probably not fun and likely a tedious thing. Not everyone will be happy and many will be protective of their particular airline. It seems that it is one step closer, however, to a national seniority list, that many would like to see. It would also create less competition and possibly more security. Am I overthinking that or being overly optimistic? What are your guys thoughts on this?
I understand the above is probably exactly what you guys are working on. I hope it all works out for the best for all groups. As someone on the outside, looking in, just can't help but wonder how this may effect me getting into the industry down the road.
Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
Of course they are. ASA has a lot to gain through this merger. But you're basically asking Xjet guys to take a concession because their management is losing money.
You're calling for us to all come together and get an industry leading contract. But what is the point of a contract if certain parts can be tossed aside and ignored for the benefit of the company?
I think the part of the contract we are talking about is doing its job, which is to prevent the pilot group from being taken advantage of in a merger.
It will do one of three things.
1) It will (eventually) be interpreted correctly and we'll end up with one list.
2) It will be interpreted correctly and SKYW will decide its not worth it and move on.
3) It will be interpreted correctly, but XJT MEC will be spineless and trade it in for something else.
If its option number 3, what is the point in negotiating a contract at all?
I understand what you're saying. Expressjet is not doing all that well financially. Its management's job to run the airline, not the pilot group. And it sure as hell isn't the pilots job to roll over for the well being of the company. This is exactly why this industry is in the shape it is now.
Except for maybe the ridiculously long duty days, everything that is wrong with this industry right now can be traced back to sham bankruptcy or concessionary contracts. Look at pay pre/post 9-11. All of that was from either negotiating lower rates to "help out the company"...or from voiding contracts altogether by declaring chatper 11. Same with scope.
Its time for people to follow their contracts. If a company can't make money under the current contract its not my problem. Maybe they should have thought about that before they signed it.