Comair 5191...
- Thread starter PGT
- Start date
Nismaxdan
Well-Known Member
He lost his left leg and contends he remembers nothing of that day.
05:48:24.4
ATIS Lexington Bluegrass information Alpha, 0854 automated
weather. wind one niner zero at eight, visibility eight, few clouds
six thousand, sky broken niner thousand. temperature two four,
dew point one niner, altimeter three zero zero zero. ILS and visual
approaches in use. landing and departing runway two two.
runway two two glideslope out of service. pilots use caution for
construction on air carrier ramp. hazardous weather information
available on HIWAS, Flight Watch or Flight Service frequencies.
all departures contact ground control on one two one point niner.
advise you have information Alpha.
05:56:34.1
CAM-2 right seat flex takeoff procedures off of um.... he said what runway?
one of 'em. * two four.
05:56:43.4
CAM-1 it's two two.
05:56:49.9
CAM-2 two two up to six, white data * FMS, flaps twenty. * smokes or
breaks come back here. come into four or two two. on two two
the ILS is out. or the glideslope is, the REILS are out. the uh,
came in the other night it was like [sound similar to audible exhale]
lights are out all over the place.
06:02:03.8
GND Comair one ninety one, taxi to runway two two. altimeter three
zero zero zero and the winds are two zero zero at eight.
06:02:08.9
RDO-2 three triple zero and taxi two two, Comair one ninety one.
06:02:12.6
GND Eagle flight runway two two, cleared for takeoff.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Good Job nismaxdan. . . what you didn't paste was the TO CLR from the tower. Want to paste that one or must I?
The only other statement TO THAT FLIGHT by the local controller, was the taxi instruction to 22. I'm not talking about the ATIS, or in cockpit discussion, or other radio communication (such as the Eagle or Skywest flight referring to 22).
Screw it. . . I'll do it just to save you the trouble.
06:05:17.7
TWR Comair one ninety one, Lexington uh, tower, fly runway heading,
cleared for takeoff.
How is Delta Connection Academy doing? That is where you are training correct?
The only other statement TO THAT FLIGHT by the local controller, was the taxi instruction to 22. I'm not talking about the ATIS, or in cockpit discussion, or other radio communication (such as the Eagle or Skywest flight referring to 22).
Screw it. . . I'll do it just to save you the trouble.
06:05:17.7
TWR Comair one ninety one, Lexington uh, tower, fly runway heading,
cleared for takeoff.
How is Delta Connection Academy doing? That is where you are training correct?
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Against my recomendation...
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Ah I see. . .is it bad that 10 years ago I wanted to goto Westwind, or DCA? :tease:
I didn't know any better. . .
Fox Xray
ATC
I'm not a tower controller (and hopefully one will jump in) but it is my understanding that the controller was not required to state the runway for the T/O clearance since they were on single runway ops stated in the ATIS and the T/O runway was specified in the taxi clearance.
My $0.02 ... NTSB will gig the crew for non sterile cockpit, most likely will hit the FAA on the tower staffing issue.
My only question for those on here who fly with an FMS ... is there some alert about being on the wrong runway ? I was under the impression there was ...
My $0.02 ... NTSB will gig the crew for non sterile cockpit, most likely will hit the FAA on the tower staffing issue.
My only question for those on here who fly with an FMS ... is there some alert about being on the wrong runway ? I was under the impression there was ...
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Yup, looks like that is "kosher." http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/ATC/Chp3/atc0309.html#3-9-9
My mistake. I think this may/should be a recommendation the NTSB will also make, even if it is the only RWY active, that one more reminder to the crew "could" of save 49 lives. Of course, an exception should be made for airports with only ONE runway.
/me departing the monday morning quarterback seat. carry on
My mistake. I think this may/should be a recommendation the NTSB will also make, even if it is the only RWY active, that one more reminder to the crew "could" of save 49 lives. Of course, an exception should be made for airports with only ONE runway.
/me departing the monday morning quarterback seat. carry on
Nismaxdan
Well-Known Member
I was only making the point that even without ATC giving the runway number in the final take off clearance, that they obviously knew the number. They had both flown there on many occasions, except I think it had been a few months for the FO. They both both knew that there was only one runway capable of handling a CRJ take off.
06:06:16.3
HOT-2 dat is weird with no lights.
Now, maybe it's because I am new to dah game or something but I would have double checked with ATC. I don't know something like, "Uh, like ATC dude or something, like this is some weird looking shizzle without the lights and shizzle? Um is you shore this the right runway and shizzle? 'Cause this nia ain't trying tah end up like crispy toast."
I see nothing wrong with double checking I would in a C172, so you better believe that I would in a CRJ. Maybe it's the anal queen in me.(OMG that pun was so not intended) Maybe ATC might be a little vaclempt (sp?) but hey whatever. It wasn't that busy so check.
It is not just the 49 people on board it's more like in excess of a 100. We need to stop thinking of people as just seats and recognize the the guy running like hell for the gate, with a laptop over his shoulder, dragging a pullman behind might be late because he had a 5 year old to calm before he left home. "Daddy, please don't go" ring any bells. A lot of us have/are becoming too complacent. For most of you, may never see an aircraft fall out of the sky and slam into the ground and burst into flames, you are lucky. For those of us who have, you can't imagine the thoughts the run through your head. The illusion of you loved one walking away from that fireball in that 15ft crater with limbs scattered everywhere. When you experience that, and I hope you never do, you will see the DCA dig in this context is so not funny. Well that's for another forum.
Now addressing the DCA dig, don't talk shizzle about the best pilot training facility anywhere (hey, I think they check here and they MAY know who I am so I've got to twist the truth a little (read lie))
Hey Max you know I is got nothing but mad love and respek for you. I explained to you why I made the decision.
Nismaxdan
Well-Known Member
surreal1221
About MY post above, I just reread it and I realized it can be accurately construed as harsh or somewhat confrontational. That was not my intention.
It's just that when I got to the part about the relatives dying in plane crashes well that was a tad bit close to home and I started crying like a little be'atch and I got mad and well you read the post.
So I will man up. SORRY.
?
About MY post above, I just reread it and I realized it can be accurately construed as harsh or somewhat confrontational. That was not my intention.
It's just that when I got to the part about the relatives dying in plane crashes well that was a tad bit close to home and I started crying like a little be'atch and I got mad and well you read the post.
So I will man up. SORRY.
?1) I get the impression that you are criticizing the use of the word "dat" in place of "that." Understand that the CVR is transcribed according to what the words sound like, using a phonetic representation of what is heard. Judging from the conversation recorded up to that point, I highly doubt that they would have slipped into some version of ghetto slang to comment on the lighting. More likely, the cockpit noise interfered with the Hot Microphone that recorded that word, and slightly distorted the first part of the sentence. I would assume that he said, "That is wierd ...", ergo the "dialect" is not an issue.
2) By the time the remark was made, takeoff power had already been set, and the takeoff roll had begun. "100 knots" was announced approximately 8 seconds later. By the time the remark was made, there was no time to query ATC. They were already rapidly hurling themselves to the point of no return. The question needed to be asked and answered, in some shape, form, or fashion, before they ever pushed the thrust levers forward to begin the takeoff roll.
.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Nismaxdan
Well-Known Member
Because being owned by Delta is everything!:rotfl:
Huh? No it's not.
Oooohhh yeah right being owned the the airline is everything. you:tease:me
Nismaxdan
Well-Known Member
Dude the ghetto thing with dat and that
Dude I so didn't even think of dat or is that. Cause I like knew that like that is how it sounded on the CVR and I knew from experience the transcription is... aaahhhhh reread the post. Uhhh??? Were the light off prior to take off power being set or did it go off while under takeoff power?
Uummmmm yeah just because I am really, really, really, really, good looking I am not really a himbo.
Dude the ghetto thing with dat and that
Uhhh??? Were the light off prior to take off power being set or did it go off while under takeoff power?
Uummmmm yeah just because I am really, really, really, really, good looking I am not really a himbo.
It's a little early to be drinking, isn't it?
.
Nismaxdan
Well-Known Member
It's a little early to be drinking, isn't it?
.
:yup:
Capt'n Morgan parrot Bay Coconut rum and Dole pineapple juice on th rocks of course.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Bog
New Member
Back to the topic...
In the seven years at my former employer, we NEVER had it on a checklist to confirm the runway by looking at the heading pointer. We confirmed that it was in the FMS, but the rest was up to us. In the sim, I cannot ever remember being specifically taught to bug runway heading. On the line, we never did it.
About two years ago, I had a "standardization" check. Wasn't a line check; in fact, I think it was just a way to get a check airman to another place and get him paid. Fine by me, because he was / is a very good man. One of the first things he mentioned to us was that we should bug the heading of our departure runway, not our heading assigned by the tower / clearance, nor our single-engine heading. He explained that, in a moment of a real-live V1 emergency or something similar, even the best crews would be arseholes and elbows, and keeping the aircraft going straight would help us regain our sense of what's up until we figure out what to do. Obviously, certain mountainous cities would be exceptions.
That made complete sense, so from there on out, I always bugged the heading of our departure runway. With each new FO, I'd have to "train" them about bugging that heading, and I would always explain (a) why I do that and (b) what the rationale is for doing it. All agreed that it made sense. The next bid / trip / captain, though, all of them went back to bugging everything BUT runway heading. Bad habits are hard to break.
Granted, there were still a number of times (even recently) that I had to reset the heading bug as we were rolling down the runway because I had forgotten to set it. We're humans ... we make mistakes. However, doing something that simple could have made a huge difference on this fateful morning. It's something to consider as you all make your careers a reality, or as those who are flying for a living set up the cockpit for your next departure.
/rant
In the seven years at my former employer, we NEVER had it on a checklist to confirm the runway by looking at the heading pointer. We confirmed that it was in the FMS, but the rest was up to us. In the sim, I cannot ever remember being specifically taught to bug runway heading. On the line, we never did it.
About two years ago, I had a "standardization" check. Wasn't a line check; in fact, I think it was just a way to get a check airman to another place and get him paid. Fine by me, because he was / is a very good man. One of the first things he mentioned to us was that we should bug the heading of our departure runway, not our heading assigned by the tower / clearance, nor our single-engine heading. He explained that, in a moment of a real-live V1 emergency or something similar, even the best crews would be arseholes and elbows, and keeping the aircraft going straight would help us regain our sense of what's up until we figure out what to do. Obviously, certain mountainous cities would be exceptions.
That made complete sense, so from there on out, I always bugged the heading of our departure runway. With each new FO, I'd have to "train" them about bugging that heading, and I would always explain (a) why I do that and (b) what the rationale is for doing it. All agreed that it made sense. The next bid / trip / captain, though, all of them went back to bugging everything BUT runway heading. Bad habits are hard to break.
Granted, there were still a number of times (even recently) that I had to reset the heading bug as we were rolling down the runway because I had forgotten to set it. We're humans ... we make mistakes. However, doing something that simple could have made a huge difference on this fateful morning. It's something to consider as you all make your careers a reality, or as those who are flying for a living set up the cockpit for your next departure.
/rant
