college degree is worthless w/o experience

Willdathrill

Willdathrill

New Member
i am 24 and a college grad as of this december. i also have my PPL. i've applied to many aviation related jobs in airlines and the corporate world with no bites as of yet. my original plan was to get a job in some type of aviation and then wait for a guard unit to call.

however, lately i have become worried about my plan as i do not have a job and i am becoming pessimistic about my competitiveness for guard and active. therefore i have been thinking about starting serious flight training. i am young, however, i am not getting any younger and i think it would be important to start working directly towards the cockpit and not wait for a call that may not come and a career that is indirect.

my only reticence is the debt and first year FO pay. (i already own a note for 20k for my degree in International Relations.) i think i am going to start flight training and look at military selection as a bonus prize and a great way to pay off my debts.

am i crazy?
 
I think planning on getting into a unit flying is....well bad planning. Its super selective even if your scoring amazingly because there just aren't that many slots open. I'm not sure what you do with an international relations degree but if you can get a decent job with good pay using that degree and fly at the same time you might be able to save yourself allot of debt and therefore heartbreak.

With a PPL(not sure how many hours you have) your probably lookin at a minimum of 1 to 2 years before your competitive for an RJ job so plan accordingly. Also as you already know its gonna be rough trying to pay back loans on RJ pay so if you can get rid of the debt you have or keep from acquring more your gonna be ahead of the game.
 
Don't know how interested/disinterested you are in active duty military, but it's a great place for the right people. I'm not sure how they are on slots these days, but you could have your pilot training slot in hand before you signed up.
 
I don't know what your degree is in but if you went off and got your MBA you could be knocking down some big bucks in just a few years. Have your loans paid off a few years after that and then go buy your own plane and lease it back to a flight school and probably break even on it or maybe better. You could fly all you want then.

Or you could go and do all of your ratings and be broke for the next 3-5 years scraping by until you might start making enough to cover your bills.

Whatever you do, try and keep your debt to a minimum, especially if you are going to be a pilot.
 
thanks guys so far. everyone on jet careers is quick. i only have 36 hours as i graduated part 141. some extra details: 5 years enlisted in air guard operations, father was a colonel in army guard (cobras, hueys), and 2.4 gpa from college (it was alot of fun; not much work obviously). also worked in a busy nationally ranked FBO so i know alot about the business and am currently learning the art/science of piloting.

everything in international relations is either state department or grad school dependent. i am also very interested in active usaf and i am currently studying for AFOQT. right now there is alot of information floating around about how slow USAF recruiting is in terms of UPT.

i have friends making 42k out of college (selling their soul to walmart) along with two in law school, but i don't think i care. i just want to fly. i need a plan for the finances for the advanced ratings and apply like hell to USAF/guard. also i just can't fly choppers, for some reason i have no desire to fly hawks as my dad keeps trying to get me to do. again i think a regular job would just be a detour, unless i can get that american eagle scheduling job!
 
Willdathrill said:
i just want to fly. .... again i think a regular job would just be a detour, unless i can get that american eagle scheduling job!
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It's too late, sounds like you have been bitten by the bug... If you just want to get to the regionals ASAP, I would look at ATP, or maybe RAA but either way, you aren't getting a way cheap. You could be one of those RAA guys that timed it right and get hired with 300hrs TT.
 
ATP is my focus right now through my study so far. i like their heavy build of ME time. i am smart enough that ME time is gold as a sub 1500TT pilot. i can build TT pretty much anywhere instructing.

being hired as low time is a bonus, but i have no problem paying my dues. I can live on $1200 a month (ATP CFI). however, i have also seen my PPL instructor eat oatmeal for lunch and bounce at my favorite college bar and he has a spartan degree!
 
"...sounds like you have been bitten by the bug..."

Can be a very expensive bug bite if you don’t do your research first.

Ask the perspective school to give you factual first time pass rates of their students on FAA checkrides. Busting too many check rides can cost you more money for retakes and limit your chances of getting into a regional.

Ask them how many Gold Seal Instructors they have vs non Gold Seal Instructors. This could be a reflection of the above.

Also look to see if the school is accredited. If they are they might be able to help you out with financing. Some of these schools might be able to you federal grants and lower interest federal loans than the standard aviation loans out there.

See if they can accept VA benefits if you are looking into the military option.

Good Luck!
 
This is what I have come to realize:

1. A political science degree from a liberal arts college isn't a powerful degree ... especially if you have no desire to join the mud-slinging fest in DC. Besides, I think getting a political gig while still in the military is a no-no.

2. Active Duty Air Force has a good number of openings for rated (Pilot/Nav) slots ... and so long as God hasn't smite thee, as with me and my lazy eye, you can apply.

3. ANG units like to promote their own. You have a much better chance of getting a slot after being enlisted in a unit. I had a pilot slot with my unit to fly the C-5 Galaxy (my first choice airframe), but as mentioned above God was jealous and gave me a lazy eye so the Air Force would take the slot away.

4. A Bachelor's degree is equal to a high school diploma twenty, thirty, years ago. What do I mean? Years, decades ago, you had to do well in high school to get into college. A college degree opened doors. Since universities realized they too, are ultimately a business, anyone with money or willing to take out loans can get a college degree .... even if they can't spell.

*** It is my opinion that many people getting bachelors' degrees aren't smart enough, but do enough and play the pity card enough to skate by with C's and have a degree ... like me, thus lowering the value of mine.

5. You need a masters degree anymore to separate yourself from the field. That's where the money is these days.

6. International Relations degree. You could easily find work here in the greater DC area with either government or private firms.

7. While I truly love my wife and son ... being in this state of transition/confusion/etc. would be easier to do without the pressure of having a family and supporting them.

More to come if I think of more.

Good luck!
 
you are dead on regarding the importance of a master's degree. i am just treating flight training as a masters program personally.

i was informed today that four pilot slots are being added to my unit as we transition from 16 vipers to 18 A-10's. i am still not going to sit on my hands waiting on them though.
 
It certainly gets more difficult when you have a young family to support. I go back and forth on gettting all my ratings and being 45k in debt while trying to support my family. The kid in me chases the dream, and the grown man says it's better for my family if I take the 50k desk job.
Something I have given alot of thought to is how many pilots are forced to retire early due to a medical reason. I've heard it is a alot. For that reason, when someone says you better have a backup plan, they are giving good advice. Like WINDCHILL said, masters degree is a good back-up.
Also, ( and I'm jumping around here ) I belive the majority of ATP multi-time is safety pilot. Employers feel differently about this issue, some care and others don't.
 
notawannabee said:
It certainly gets more difficult when you have a young family to support. I go back and forth on gettting all my ratings and being 45k in debt while trying to support my family. The kid in me chases the dream, and the grown man says it's better for my family if I take the 50k desk job.
Something I have given alot of thought to is how many pilots are forced to retire early due to a medical reason. I've heard it is a alot. For that reason, when someone says you better have a backup plan, they are giving good advice. Like WINDCHILL said, masters degree is a good back-up.
Also, ( and I'm jumping around here ) I belive the majority of ATP multi-time is safety pilot. Employers feel differently about this issue, some care and others don't.
Click to expand...

at ATP only 37 hours (roughly) out of 140ish is saftey pilot time.
 
Windchill said:
7. While I truly love my wife and son ... being in this state of transition/confusion/etc. would be easier to do without the pressure of having a family and supporting them.
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So true. I was just talking to someone about the stresses of retirement. On top of the normal head-of-household worries, everyone seems to have their own unique stresses that are much worse than the typical ones everyone has. Usually they involve family. Good luck my friend. I know I need it!
 
Willdathrill said:
you are dead on regarding the importance of a master's degree. i am just treating flight training as a masters program personally.

i was informed today that four pilot slots are being added to my unit as we transition from 16 vipers to 18 A-10's. i am still not going to sit on my hands waiting on them though.
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Do they take old guys/ (Love the Hog)
 
I Beg To Differ

That degree, contrary to what you might believe, will carry much more significant weight long term, believe me. More specifically, what you might now realize is that relatively speaking, it carries more weight than someone with a high school degree and no experience; it will pay more initially than with no degree.

Yes, the MBA or MS in Aviation Management will produce more promising opportunities than say International Relations, but in a global market with your private certificate, your degree will a more significant higher stepping stone. Ask the guy with the H.S. diploma.

As for the military, a degree places you in the officer role fast. Officer candidate programs in all branches of service gives you the chance to fly.

Be happy with that degree.
 
SibePilot311 said:
Do they take old guys/ (Love the Hog)
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yeah they do. i know of several old A-10 pilots that are in vipers now. my supervisor is a C-130 guard transfer. i fully expect them to hire some active or old guard folks, especially if they are A-10 quallified.

i just hope there are a couple slots for me to chase after.
 
First off dont go to RAA...stick with atp.
Also I know two guys who got viper slots. They both had 1000+ hours a decent pcsm score but that had little to do with their selection. Its all about social skills and drinking ability.
 
dead on about social skills and drinking ability. after this weekend i realize that my drinking skills are in complete disrepair. they are still talking about me at the bars. my father told me not to get too chummy as not to look totally unprofessional or a kissass. its also not my style. however they gave a slot to someone who might be characterized as such.
 
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