Colgan?

[Baronman]

Jumpseaters get on at the Captain's discretion but there still is a boarding priority among them. I let on the guy with the highest priority and that is usually determined by the gate agent. To do otherwise would probably get you in some trouble. Example, my buddy who is an FO wants to JS to Buffalo, but there is a guy I don't know from a hole in the wall who is 4 years senior to him who wants to go too....As much as I'd like to get my buddy on, I'm gonna let the senior guy on and I'd expect the same if the situation was reversed.

 

[Baronman]

Wish I was. There's a lot of good guys working there and deserve at least decent flight benefits.

They deserve many things...well...you know where this conversation goes.

 

[JJS]

My trips this month are almost kind of sort of commutable but are very risky. I have 0940 showtimes with my last days ending around 6pm or so. I can definately commute home on my last day but the first day only gives me 2 chances to get to work before my showtime and that is with zero delays or cancellations so it is a risky commute.

You guys have a commuter clause now. Two chances are all you should need.

I'm not sure if it is still the same or not, but when I was there I was commuting from MSP to IAH I always got bumped out of the JS by Continental and Express Jet guys. They had a higher JS priority than we did and they got to keep their board date. So even if you were hired in 2006 the computer would show you as a 2008 hire because we didn't keep our board date. Hopefully that has changed for you guys.

 

[kellwolf]

I also was curious about what is going on with Pinnacle and Colgan to date.

First off, good job asking for this kind of stuff. Shows you really care about your boyfriend and are in it for the long haul....I think.


Baradium pretty much covered everything. My bet is it's gonna be tied up in the legal system for a while, but we'll eventually be one list. The arbitrator has said he's sticking with this one till the end, and he's on our side. The fact that management has basically thumbed their nose at him probably won't help one bit. AFAIK, ALPA hasn't filed anything in court, but that's probably b/c they wanna make DAMN sure they've got their case sewn up. At this level, they can't afford to make mistakes.

As was mentioned, the final integration will probably be weighted towards the PCL pilots, but I expect there will be "fence" agreements to keep the movement going at both places. Translation: seniority wise, there might not be much of a change in base operations. The fences would keep senior PCL guys from bidding on Colgan planes and vice versa. The only big question I have is where the Q400s would go. Technically, the money used to acquire them was shadily shifted over from a monetary award that was directly acquired via a services agreement with Northwest. Which means that money SHOULD have gone to the Pinnacle operation, not to buy airplanes for Colgan. So, the union might go after the Q400 to get that on the Pinnacle side of the fence. It'll be a while before any of that shakes out, though.

 

[powellgal]

Hey everyone, thanks for the insight! If you all have any more words of advice or anything else to offer it would be great! I don't really know what questions to ask!

 

[SmitteyB]

First off, good job asking for this kind of stuff. Shows you really care about your boyfriend and are in it for the long haul....I think.


Baradium pretty much covered everything. My bet is it's gonna be tied up in the legal system for a while, but we'll eventually be one list. The arbitrator has said he's sticking with this one till the end, and he's on our side. The fact that management has basically thumbed their nose at him probably won't help one bit. AFAIK, ALPA hasn't filed anything in court, but that's probably b/c they wanna make DAMN sure they've got their case sewn up. At this level, they can't afford to make mistakes.

As was mentioned, the final integration will probably be weighted towards the PCL pilots, but I expect there will be "fence" agreements to keep the movement going at both places. Translation: seniority wise, there might not be much of a change in base operations. The fences would keep senior PCL guys from bidding on Colgan planes and vice versa. The only big question I have is where the Q400s would go. Technically, the money used to acquire them was shadily shifted over from a monetary award that was directly acquired via a services agreement with Northwest. Which means that money SHOULD have gone to the Pinnacle operation, not to buy airplanes for Colgan. So, the union might go after the Q400 to get that on the Pinnacle side of the fence. It'll be a while before any of that shakes out, though.

Are there a lot of guys there who say "Oh my god, I want to fly the Q so bad and be based in EWR!!" ?

Or does a lot of this stem from managements failure to offer a fair CBA?

 

[powellgal]

First off, good job asking for this kind of stuff. Shows you really care about your boyfriend and are in it for the long haul....I think.

Oh we certainly are in it for the long haul! I'm just doing what I can to be supportive and he is certainly always willing to answer questions for me (and has answered oodles of them), but I wanted to hear it from the guys who are there right now. I think the experience you all have is beyond valuable not just for me, but for him as well. I know the advice and support he has received here has been a huge blessing to him, and without it he really wouldn't be where he is today.

 

[kellwolf]

Are there a lot of guys there who say "Oh my god, I want to fly the Q so bad and be based in EWR!!" ?

Or does a lot of this stem from managements failure to offer a fair CBA?

Mostly b/c of the lack of CBA, but there are some guys that think that growth should belong to us b/c it was our blood, sweat and tears that got those planes. For me personally, I don't care since I'm not commuting. Odds are the guys senior to me in MEM won't bid the Q, but you'd probably see DTW empty out a bit. I do have to say that they make a good argument for the Qs being on the PCL side of the fence.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

Mostly b/c of the lack of CBA, but there are some guys that think that growth should belong to us b/c it was our blood, sweat and tears that got those planes. For me personally, I don't care since I'm not commuting. Odds are the guys senior to me in MEM won't bid the Q, but you'd probably see DTW empty out a bit. I do have to say that they make a good argument for the Qs being on the PCL side of the fence.

Not in any way trying to step on anybody's toes, but a few things to toss out there.1) Colgan was awarded the Q flying with CAL before the buy out, based off the blood sweat and tears of the CAL saab guys. Pre-purchase Pncl was never in the mix for that.2)Purchasing the Q for Colgan has not limited the growth or expansion of pinnacle, and it did not affect Pncl. pilots ( u did not have to take any pay concessions to purchase the airplane.)3)Pncl has expanded even with the Q purchases, and are having staffing issues for current flying.. let alone expansion.4)The CAL contract strongly states the flying is to be done by colgan, Not PAI or PAC..this is prob. going to get messy... but I hope QOL is what pncl alpa goes after,.. not fighting over flying. fighting over flying is what got us all in this boat to begin with.to the original poster.. doing the colgan is never fun... but if I had to lay my eggs in basket, i'd choose a prop operator right now with the way fuel is going...

 

[SmitteyB]

Colgan isn't a bad place to be right now.

Even though it's sad to say, but Buddy is right...

Everyone is watching CJC with the Q right now. That will make or break this company. Operated it well and it will be in Denver with United and Houston with CAL. The pay rates and work rules will come.

Today's crap regional (Colgan) is tomorrows place to be. Look at the Shuttle America guys. 4 years ago they were flying Saab 340A models. Now they're senior 170 captains. Maybe Colgan will be the next place to be.

And maybe they will go under. I'll be instructing in 172's filled with the stench of BO from 18 year old XXXXX kids who can't land an airplane for the life of them.
------------------------------------

With that being said...

Colgan people DO want the Q400. Growth and prosperity are something that people here are NOT used to. I say merge the lists, throw up fences and lets get on with the negotiations.

 

[Airdale]

I'll be instructing in 172's filled with the stench of BO from 18 year old XXXXXX kids who can't land an airplane for the life of them.

:rotfl: Smittey, you almost made me spit coffee on my laptop! That is funny dude!!

You wouldn't have to worry though, there are enough of us out there that would help you get another job.

Hopefully things at CJC will turn around. Everything is up in the air right now, tough times are ahead. Hopefully when the music stops, most of us have chairs, otherwise I'll be back to working hardwood floors again, and I'd do my best to stay there.

 

[sigpilot]

Today's crap regional (Colgan) is tomorrows place to be. Look at the Shuttle America guys. 4 years ago they were flying Saab 340A models. Now they're senior 170 captains. Maybe Colgan will be the next place to be.

Actually the original Shuttle guys got screwed when they were intergrated into the CHQ list. Guys who were captains on the Saab are now just upgrading. I've been flying with a bunch that are coming off IOE so they are def not senior captains.

 

[casey]

Also, as a Colgan Q400 pilot for Continental you are designated as SA5 (space available class 5).

At Expressjet you are SA3 and get,
1. Vaccation Passes
2. Designated Domestic Partner-SA4 'Still better than Colgan employee '
3. Buddy passes-SA5 'equivalent to Colgan employees'

not quite. at XJT we get SA3 travel on continental and continental express, but only SA5 travel on continental connection, which includes colgan, cape air and gulfstream.

 

[kellwolf]

Not in any way trying to step on anybody's toes, but a few things to toss out there.1) Colgan was awarded the Q flying with CAL before the buy out, based off the blood sweat and tears of the CAL saab guys. Pre-purchase Pncl was never in the mix for that.2)Purchasing the Q for Colgan has not limited the growth or expansion of pinnacle, and it did not affect Pncl. pilots ( u did not have to take any pay concessions to purchase the airplane.)3)Pncl has expanded even with the Q purchases, and are having staffing issues for current flying.. let alone expansion.4)The CAL contract strongly states the flying is to be done by colgan, Not PAI or PAC..this is prob. going to get messy... but I hope QOL is what pncl alpa goes after,.. not fighting over flying. fighting over flying is what got us all in this boat to begin with.to the original poster.. doing the colgan is never fun... but if I had to lay my eggs in basket, i'd choose a prop operator right now with the way fuel is going...

I agree that fighting over flying is gonna be a bad road to go down. I'm just saying the guys that think that way have a valid argument. Colgan didn't have the $$$ for the Qs until PCL bought them. If they did, Pinnacle wouldn't own them right now. The main reason the Colgans' sold (from what I gather from pilots there) was to get the capital needed to grow the airline. Some could argue that if that money wasn't spent on the Q400 it could have been spent to settle the pilot contract. I really don't care about growth that much. I'd lose the Delta flying in a heartbeat to get a decent contract here. Growth is important, but not at the sacrifices we've been making.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

Given whom you work for... i think any general recognized precedence would be...

None of that money would have ever gone to the pilots.

Just saying, both sides have a claim to the Q... wouldn't have been possible without either side, but figuring out how to divy it up will go badly i feel. If Pinnacle hadn't bought colgan, somebody else would have... and we would he having the same (Q400) fight over there. I wish CAL had flipped the bill on a lease back for us. In the end, i think that is the situation that would have worked best for them. They would now own the next 40 or so orders of the aircraft. The way fuel is costing everybody now, they would have come out looking pretty smart. Colgan would be Colgan... and if Colgan messed it up, they could always give it to mesa or some other place. 4 years ago when we signed the contract, and started the SAAB service with larger capacity to follow, nobody knew fuel was going to cost $100 per B.

Oh well...
To the original Topic.

Almost EVERYBODY i know that Came to Colgan, Upgraded, Transitoined and moved on has ZERO regrets for doing so. They all sem to say it was the fastest way, and they gained TONS of real world, crap flying experience.

Colgan is special in the way that you get to know EVERYBODY, at least at your base, very well. You form smaller families inside the colgan "Family" Establish friendship with pilots that have you back from that point on. A Colgan pilot that has moved on always seems happy and willing to walk in a resume etc...

Yet on the otherhand, you will def. learn to love the feeling, that the company will tell you whatever they think you want to hear, just to make you do what they want. You will feel like they will Screw you five ways from friday when they need you, but when you need a favor they can't be bothered to give you a trip trade when you've already done 90% of the work for them. You will learn who to talk to in scheduling, and when to keep calling back untill somebody else answers.

If you see 703 in the number on your caller ID, you will tremble. That 3 digit code is enough to make you turn off your phone, turn of your computer, and tell your neighbors not to answer theirs either.

Airlines are terribly unstable. As far as that goes, Colgan fills the gap for many. I see a lot of family guys that are happy at colgan... General home at night seems to be big amongs us... so we are willing to put up with other stuff. Seems that the young, single guys.. or commuters have a rough time and leave after a year or so.

 

[powellgal]

Airlines are terribly unstable. As far as that goes, Colgan fills the gap for many. I see a lot of family guys that are happy at colgan... General home at night seems to be big amongs us... so we are willing to put up with other stuff. Seems that the young, single guys.. or commuters have a rough time and leave after a year or so.

Hmm... why is it that the younger guys and commuters have a rough time with Colgan? Is it because they can't deal with the way they're treated?

 

[dingo222]

Hmm... why is it that the younger guys and commuters have a rough time with Colgan? Is it because they can't deal with the way they're treated?

for some yes, but most are looking for the "airline" lifestyle with the overnights etc. It's also much harder to be a commuter at colgan.I haven't really looked at the q400 lines to see how commutable they are, but the saab lines can be tough. IF you commute, plan on losing 4 or 5 days off a month with commuting and scheduling changes.

 

[powellgal]

for some yes, but most are looking for the "airline" lifestyle with the overnights etc. It's also much harder to be a commuter at colgan.I haven't really looked at the q400 lines to see how commutable they are, but the saab lines can be tough. IF you commute, plan on losing 4 or 5 days off a month with commuting and scheduling changes.

Can you explain to me what your schedule is like? Are you telling me that you're home every night?

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

If you are able to find an apartment near a base, Then it becomes a very workable situation. It's great when you are home every night... if tht is what you want. If you were wanting to raise kids, and be an airline pilot, living at base with colgan is about the best you could ask for IMO.

I've been with Colgan for a while on the 1900 side. It used to be great. I would work wed-Fri from noon till 9pm, have 16 days off and a 90 hr pay credit. I never ferreid or got drafted. There was a crew of decent crew schedulers, that knew everybody's name. You never had to give them your employee number when you called in, and they were very acomodating. If you picked up open time, they remembered.


Now i get calls to notify me of my modified show time 3 hours after that show, and after I've flown 3 legs, and they insist i have to "confirm" that i have been notified of the new show time... I guess flying 3 legs on time doesn't count as me "Knowing"

I really hope it all gets pulled back together, and they get on the ball. I just don't see it happeneing soon. Maybe after the Q is online for a while, and the recession starts to slow down turnover in the front office in HEF, things will improve

 

[Airdale]

Can you explain to me what your schedule is like? Are you telling me that you're home every night?

Please don't bank on this going to Colgan. Seggy can vouch for that one as well. Outstation basing won't last. Sooner or later its going to be gone, and unless you live near one of the big airports, you're going to be commuting anyway.

Commuting and Colgan don't go well together. As stated before, you're going to lose 4-5 days off a month because of commuting. Plus the added expense of a crashpad is ridiculous on their salary. I would have much prefered overnights when I worked there, because I could save $250/month on a crashpad.

To top all of that, they treat you like trash. Guys that have been there for awhile said it wasn't always that bad, but I worked there about a month after the Pinnacle purchase and left 11 months later. Life on the Q400 might be different, but I was on the 1900 and got sick and tired of getting drafted/extended all the time.

Why are you interested in Colgan? Bases? Equipment?