Colgan Fined for Crew Rest Violations

Teller1900

Teller1900

Well-Known Member

MSNBC said:
Colgan Air Inc. operated 17 flights from June 2008 to February 2009 in which pilots and flight attendants were scheduled to work seven days in a row, the FAA said... Also, Colgan didn't give three flight attendants their required rest periods after scheduling them to work at least eight consecutive hours, the agency said.
And a pilot was scheduled for more than eight hours of flight time between rest periods, the agency said.
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I searched and didn't see this one yet; sorry if it's a repeat.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46603831#.T1GbtvGvKSo
 
I don't know why I'm surprised, but I am that pilots would willing violate the regs on something like duty rest. I love my duty rest.
 
Douglas said:
I don't know why I'm surprised, but I am that pilots would willing violate the regs on something like duty rest. I love my duty rest.
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Wouldn't be surprised if the pilots were new and didn't fully understand the regs yet. Not an excuse but the regs are confusing to new guys who are juggling a lot of unfamiliar stuff. Throw in a new scheduler, a weak scheduling system, and other factors and one can see how it happens.
 
I ALWAYS know when I'm on day 6 and tomorrow is a GUARANTEED day off!! Pretty hard to believe any 121 pilot wouldn't know this.
 
It's shocking that in this day and age of computerization it's still even possible to give a crew member an illegal assignment.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Eh, computers are still programmed by humans...
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Well, yes, but you'd think it would be worth a few extra dollars to double check your programming to make sure it's right.
Unless you are implying that the human element involved a manual override to get around a "CREWMEMBER NOT AVAILABLE, FLIGHT/DUTY TIME LIMIT" error, which is a whole 'nother can of worms.
 
Roger Roger said:
Well, yes, but you'd think it would be worth a few extra dollars to double check your programming to make sure it's right.
Unless you are implying that the human element involved a manual override to get around a "CREWMEMBER NOT AVAILABLE, FLIGHT/DUTY TIME LIMIT" error, which is a whole 'nother can of worms.
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That is exactly what has happened in the past. Block times magically changing to get someone under a certain hour/rest requirement. This was especially common a few years back when SOC was in Manassas
 
Roger Roger said:
Well, yes, but you'd think it would be worth a few extra dollars to double check your programming to make sure it's right.
Unless you are implying that the human element involved a manual override to get around a "CREWMEMBER NOT AVAILABLE, FLIGHT/DUTY TIME LIMIT" error, which is a whole 'nother can of worms.
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Well, in an ideal world, yes. No comment on the latter.

I don't actually know what, if any, requirements the FAA puts on crew scheduling software as far as testing and validation. Computers goof, usually when the designer or the operator goofs. Hence, joint responsibility (may assign/may accept).
 
I had a scheduler last year tell me I still had 2 hours to go on my duty limits. 2 hours would have put me over the FAA legal 16 hours, much less the contractual limit. Apparently, our software (which likely hasn't change much if at all since 2009) doesn't tell the schedulers a whole lot. You're also trusting people from the Memphis city school system to do math. That's never really the best option.

I've had numerous occasions (mostly in the past two years and when I was on reserve) where I was telling a scheduler I was illegal due to rest issues and they insisted I was legal. I flew with an FO last week that had TWO REDUCED REST PERIOD WITH NO COMP REST. There ya go, there's a fine right there, and that was last week. He was new, and it's his first 121 job, so he didn't know he HAD to get comp rest. It's not something they teach the new guys much in ground school. His CA was doing a different overnight, and I hadn't met up with him yet, so he had only scheduling to tell him any differently. They said since it was weather, it was legal. Sorry, Charlie. It's not. So, yeah, it's totally possible.
 
Duty time busts and crews willing to fly them are an artifice of a wage labor system that pays you by the hours you fly. Salary those guys at a decent and they'll never accept bogus duty times again. As long as guys are making pennies and paid by the hour they'll do anything to make it.
 
kellwolf said:
I've had numerous occasions (mostly in the past two years and when I was on reserve) where I was telling a scheduler I was illegal due to rest issues and they insisted I was legal. I flew with an FO last week that had TWO REDUCED REST PERIOD WITH NO COMP REST. There ya go, there's a fine right there, and that was last week. He was new, and it's his first 121 job, so he didn't know he HAD to get comp rest. It's not something they teach the new guys much in ground school. His CA was doing a different overnight, and I hadn't met up with him yet, so he had only scheduling to tell him any differently. They said since it was weather, it was legal. Sorry, Charlie. It's not. So, yeah, it's totally possible.
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I'm about to be that new FO, is there anywhere besides the FAR's that give a good explanation of all the rules for part 121 and 135 that is not in legalese?
 
DesertDriver said:
I'm about to be that new FO, is there anywhere besides the FAR's that give a good explanation of all the rules for part 121 and 135 that is not in legalese?
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Your FOM should provide some guidance because that will take into account your contract and probably provide an example or 2. A lot of that will depend on where you work though.

You're also trusting people from the Memphis city school system to do math. That's never really the best option.
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Especially when the legs are numbered 1,2,3,5,6,7......in the MM1
 
I think we are forgetting that it's not a calendar day off in 7, it's 24 in 7. Old school Colgan with no contract or union protection would frequently give someone 24 hours off in a 7 day period, and sometimes not even in domicile.

Fly back to the hub in the morning, finish at 730am, go to rest, next day you're good at 731am and you've had your 24 hours off that are required.

Thankfully we no longer have to live like that and our contract requires a calendar day off in 7 days.
 
I spent a few weeks without seeing home because of that. Hotel at some awful back country place for 24hrs, and right back to work for a few days. The required calendar day off IN BASE is one of my favorite provisions in the contract.
 
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