colgan alpa committee

I appreciate the response, there's no doubt that alpa will be better than nothing. However, did you ever work at a teamsters carrier?

The reason I started this thread, is because I talk to WAY to many people that fly or have flown with alpa that say STAY AWAY. One guy even called alpa the devil.

I do not hear similar things about teamsters. I talked to a cjc capt. that had been at a teamsters carrier, and he wants teamsters. That speaks volumes to me.


I think any union is evil. A necessary evil. Granted, I'm just a hardcore conservative from Texas, but if you really think that Teamsters will help you get a better quality of life, protection, rules...... then by all means go ahead and vote for them. That's right, they don't even want you to vote for them. If your talking about Captain PR, it just so happens that he was at the ALPA table for about 3 or 4 hours yesterday. He's been a teamsters carrier and an alpa carrier. Of course he thought teamsters was better, as horizon didnt go out of business but aloha did. That was due to go! airlines, not alpa. He'll come around.

Seggy did u have like a 7 hour ground stop from Pit or what?
 
That may be the case, but I have not met any.

Does it mean nothing to you that US Air recently decertified Alpa?
That we are dealing with the same issue as us air with conflict of interest?
Yes, all things equal Alpa might be okay, but given the circumstances (with pinnacle having alpa) the decision is easy for me.

No offense, but do you even google any of this stuff? I know for a fact that you don't even research any of this stuff, because if you did, you would be praising Alpa. I'm guessing your a new hire. It's okay, I am too (Jan 08), but I have done my research. I urge you to do some research, and come back and ask questions. Again, I mean no offense.
 
I appreciate the response, there's no doubt that alpa will be better than nothing. However, did you ever work at a teamsters carrier?

The reason I started this thread, is because I talk to WAY to many people that fly or have flown with alpa that say STAY AWAY. One guy even called alpa the devil.

I do not hear similar things about teamsters. I talked to a cjc capt. that had been at a teamsters carrier, and he wants teamsters. That speaks volumes to me.

I have no direct experience with the Teamsters.

Talk to Airdale about this one.

They had issues with the Teamsters at RAH. Apparently, there was grumbling about the quality of representation provided. The Teamsters- THEIR UNION... started talking about having people fired for anti-union treason.

Consider that.

Seriously- the Teamsters have no real idea how to deal with airline issues.

ALPA has its failings, to be sure, but the Teamsters have no place in airline pilot issues.
 
I've got time this morning, so I'll field these concerns

That may be the case, but I have not met any.

I haven't met Stephen Hawking, but that doesn't mean I discount his opinion.


Does it mean nothing to you that US Air recently decertified Alpa?

If you look a little deeper into the USA/AWA issue, it's a little more complicated. The US Air guys dumped ALPA b/c they didn't like the result of what the arbitrator said. Multiple times, the US Air union leadership told the arbitrator "Date of hire or nothing." The arbitrator said he couldn't do that but was open to other suggestions, of which they provided none. The award came out, and the US Air pilots weren't happy with it. They had to place their anger somewhere, and themselves was not a viable option for them. So, they placed it at ALPA. The REAL issue was the local leadership. If they had worked with the arbitrator and with their new co-workers at AWA, then a possible solution could have been extended that both pilot groups could live with. Instead, they fostered an "Us vs Them" mentality which has only gotten worse. People love to bring up US Air/AWA when they talk about decertifing ALPA, but no one talks about how things are going much better between Delta and NWA, both of which are ALPA carriers.

That we are dealing with the same issue as us air with conflict of interest?

Actually, it's only a conflict of interest if your local leadership puts PINNACLE'S well being over their own pilots. Most of the people that say it's a conflict of interest issue don't understand how ALPA works. Like Gonzo said, they put a lot of power in the hands of the local MECs, and that would work FOR you guys in this instance. Talk to Sherpa about seniority list integration in the event of a merger. He's done a lot of research into it, and he's got good answers on the issue and how it would work under labor groups represented by different unions or the same union under the RLA. You'd actually fair BETTER with ALPA since if we merged, you'd be less than 30% of the merged pilot group. The RLA has tricky language when it comes to that.

Yes, all things equal Alpa might be okay, but given the circumstances (with pinnacle having alpa) the decision is easy for me.

Pinnacle ALPA and Colgan ALPA would be totally separate. If the two were merged (which management wants to avoid at all costs anyway), then we'd have to work together the same way Delta and NWA are working right now if we were both ALPA. The conflict of interest argument is normally put forth by people that don't understand the inner workings of ALPA. ALPA doesn't favor one group over the other unless the local leadership of one group makes that decision. If any of them ever did, it's time for a recall vote on that elected position. How many Pinnacle pilots have you talked to about the issue to find out what Pinnacle ALPA's stance on the situation is? I think you might be surprised.

Plus, the RLA is a LOT different than the NLRA. A majority of the Teamsters work under the NLRA, so that's what they're geared towards. On the RLA side, you've got Horizon, Go Jets and Republic (and most of the Republic guys I talk to aren't too thrilled with what they're getting for their money). That's a very, very small section of the Teamsters, so odds are they don't devote a lot of time to researching the RLA. ALPA, on the other hand, knows it backwards and forwards since that's ALL they operate under. I'd much rather have an ALPA lawyer that knows the legal frame work than a Teamsters lawyer that read up on it on the plane flight to my hearing.

It's ultimately your decision to make, but make an informed one. Research the topics and make the decision yourself. Don't just go off what you hear in a crew room.
 
Ask yourself where those Captains who call ALPA "the Devil" came from. I'll bet they're bitter, furloughed ex-ALPA pilots who blame the National Union for missteps made by their local MECs. And they don't appreciate that National has VERY LITTLE say in how the locals MECs execute their individual game plans.

All National can do is advise. If the locals don't take the advice, there's nothing National can do.

So those guys either don't understand how National works or are so bitter about their personal circumstance that they need someone to "blame it on".

I'm in close touch with QX guys and, believe me, you DO NOT want the IBT.
 
That may be the case, but I have not met any.

Does it mean nothing to you that US Air recently decertified Alpa?
That we are dealing with the same issue as us air with conflict of interest?
Yes, all things equal Alpa might be okay, but given the circumstances (with pinnacle having alpa) the decision is easy for me.

I have. M.W., a SAAB street captain from Piedmont (was there for 3+ years I believe and the only reason he came over to Colgan was because the SYR base closed), had some very good points about why we need ALPA. He is an OC member. If you ever run into him, please ask him about it, he is a really nice guy. There is another OC member who is a street captain (M.A.), and he came from ASA. I know for a fact there are others in the OC who came from ALPA carriers, just look at the list. Obviously, they chose to be in the OC because their experience with ALPA was a positive one. I also met an EWR based street captain who came from ATA, he told me he worked for both a Teamsters and an ALPA carrier in the past, and he wants ALPA.
You say you haven't met any. To me, it seems like you are hearing only what you want to hear.

If you are going to bring up the fact that you hear bad things about ALPA, why don't you open up your eyes to the fact that Teamsters pilots also have terrible things to say about them? In fact, I was just speaking to another FO at my base... he was a ramper for 3 years at Horizon before coming here, and he told me he heard nothing but bad things about IBT from the pilots. If you're going to bring up US Airways decertification (which isn't even relevant if you knew the true facts of the case), why don't you bring up the fact that Netjets also decertified Teamsters recently?

Please stop listening to guys who have no clue what they're talking about... don't insult yourself, research the facts yourself because they are out there.
 
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