CNN Video: Safety Rule Could Create Pilot Shortage

[MikeD]

I'm hoping that the under-1500-hours crowd who is angry about having to wait to get their first 121 job are listening to those of us who are trying to make them smarter.

On a related note, the best part are the people who GOT their jobs in under 1500 hours and were/are the proverbial 250 hour wonders themselves; who are admonishing and giving crap to the current people in those same shoes about how they're unqualified and unsafe.

Pot, this is kettle, radio check, over.

 

[cmill]

And we can all do that without making fun of the kids who just don't know any better yet. Imparting information is wonderful. Attacking the inexperienced and ignorant is not. That's more like something I would expect to find at APC. Aren't we a little better than that here?

Some times the only way to get someone to realize that they're being an ass is to call them an ass. We've all met pilots who might have 1/10th the time of someone else, but will absolutely not take any advice. I cant say if the guys in the video are like that; I really dont know them, but If you're really concerned about forgetting what you've "mastered" with your 250 hours and some sim time, then you dont need a talk, you need a reality check.

I'll go out of my way to help someone who is genuinely interested in trying to learn how things are done, but if you already know everything, forget it. You cant fill a cup thats already full.

 

[z987k]

On a related note, the best part are the people who GOT their jobs in under 1500 hours and were/are the proverbial 250 hour wonders themselves; who are admonishing and giving crap to the current people in those same shoes about how they're unqualified and unsafe.

Pot, this is kettle, radio check, over.

Well hopefully no one in this thread that is ranting on the topic is in that scenario.... that would make them just a bit hypocritical.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Well hopefully no one in this thread that is ranting on the topic is in that scenario.... that would make them just a bit hypocritical.

My intellectual honesty ops checks good.


Sent from Seat 3D

 

[USMCmech]

Well hopefully no one in this thread that is ranting on the topic is in that scenario.... that would make them just a bit hypocritical.

If one says, "Yeah I was hired at an airline with really low time and/or did PFT at Gulfstream, but now that I've been working in this industry for some time I think it was a really dumb idea." that does not make one a hypocrite.

 

[z987k]

If one says, "Yeah I was hired at an airline with really low time and/or did PFT at Gulfstream, but now that I've been working in this industry for some time I think it was a really dumb idea." that does not make one a hypocrite.

Ok, but it's still do as I say, not as I do.

 

[Soul Brotha']

And we can all do that without making fun of the kids who just don't know any better yet. Imparting information is wonderful. Attacking the inexperienced and ignorant is not. That's more like something I would expect to find at APC. Aren't we a little better than that here?

I like this. It might have to do with the fact that I went to a 141 puppy mill(yes I made a mistake). It was stupid of me to not know better and not research. It wasn't until I was at the 141 school that I found out about this site. This kid doesn't know any better just like most of us around his time. He'll learn and look back realize his mistakes later down the road.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

If one says, "Yeah I was hired at an airline with really low time and/or did PFT at Gulfstream, but now that I've been working in this industry for some time I think it was a really dumb idea." that does not make one a hypocrite.

It means you lack logical consistency.

 

[Hacker15e]

And we can all do that without making fun of the kids who just don't know any better yet. Imparting information is wonderful. Attacking the inexperienced and ignorant is not. That's more like something I would expect to find at APC. Aren't we a little better than that here?

I think that sarcasm and ridicule are both very useful teaching tools for certain circumstances.

They happen to be very useful when dealing with students who have egoes or attitudes that are woefully out of line with their experience.

They're certainly not the ONLY tools in the tool container, and they're ones that have to be used selectively, but they are valid and surprisingly effective when used correctly.

 

[JordanD]

On a related note, the best part are the people who GOT their jobs in under 1500 hours and were/are the proverbial 250 hour wonders themselves; who are admonishing and giving crap to the current people in those same shoes about how they're unqualified and unsafe.

Pot, this is kettle, radio check, over.

One thing I cannot stand is the "I am the exception" mentality I see. I'm not saying 250 hour wonders deserve a place in a 121 cockpit... but it's annoying to see those who were there at 250-300 hours preach about how no one else should be. Kind of comes across as a "Well I got mine, pull up the ladder" mentality, even if their heart is in the right place.

 

[dasleben]

Personally, after doing various flying jobs to this point in my career, I'd say "airline pilot" is on the easier side of the spectrum. From a judgement perspective, I was very ready to make the jump from teaching to airline flying. The standardization, support from other sources (maintenance, dispatch, FOs, etc.), capability of the equipment (speed, range, power, avionics, redundancy), etc. are the best I've ever had. I don't have to think about things nearly as much as I used to. I feel like my PIC judgement is less needed on a day to day basis now than it was when I was teaching every day.

We must have had very different experiences, then. CFI'ing in AZ required much less PIC ability than doing the RUT line at Cape in bad weather.

In fact, Cape requires a hell of a lot of PIC judgment, regardless of where you're based. Nobody holds your hand there, with dispatch being nothing more than flight followers. And maybe they got new planes or something, but the 402 can't get out of its own way when loaded up, man!

 

[Boris Badenov]

I think that sarcasm and ridicule are both very useful teaching tools for certain circumstances.

Yeah, you know, for a bunch of hairy-chested, death-defying, "Right Stuff"-having Aviators, this lot sure does a pitch-perfect impression of "The View" when the bad man in the computer says mean things.

 

[jrh]

We must have had very different experiences, then. CFI'ing in AZ required much less PIC ability than doing the RUT line at Cape in bad weather.

In fact, Cape requires a hell of a lot of PIC judgment, regardless of where you're based. Nobody holds your hand there, with dispatch being nothing more than flight followers. And maybe they got new planes or something, but the 402 can't get out of its own way when loaded up, man!

Haha...when you put it that way, it makes us 9K'rs sound pretty badass.

I came here after six years of CFI'ing for Part 61 FBO-style flight schools in the mountains of Washington state, Pennsylvania, and the wind swept, thunderstorm-ridden plains of Nebraska, many times in sub-100 hp aircraft. Did a fair amount of ferry flying in piston singles to all corners of the United States and Canada, and flew jumpers in a ratty old 1960 C-182, too. I was very accustomed to being a one man show in less than ideal conditions.

The STL-MWA run in a 402 is pretty tame by every metric. 6000+ foot long runways at both ends, with ILS or GPS/WAAS approaches, no matter which way the wind blows (not that it ever blows more than 30 knots here anyway). Tons of alternates if the weather goes down. No obstacles. ATC service all the way to the ground. Even when loaded, I've never seen less than a 600 FPM climb rate.

I stopped using the autopilot a couple months ago because I get bored out of my mind without something to do. If I decide to leave the airline world, I doubt it will be due to money or QOL....it'll probably be out of boredom.

 

[Richman]

And we can all do that without making fun of the kids who just don't know any better yet. Imparting information is wonderful. Attacking the inexperienced and ignorant is not. That's more like something I would expect to find at APC. Aren't we a little better than that here?

Pffffft. The truth only hurts because it should.

WHO TOUCHED THE THERMOSTAT AGAIN!? WHAT DO I LOOK LIKE, THE ELECTRIC COMPANY?!?

Richman

 

[zmiller4]

It means you lack logical consistency.

Not necessarily. If you say "I got hired at XXX hrs...and didn't belong in an airliner", that's not really inconsistent.

Some of the loudest drum-beaters for the ATP rule here, though, pretty much say that they were qualified at low times but they were the exception, so it's a good idea. That's not really inconsistent, just egotistical.

 

[jtrain609]

Not necessarily. If you say "I got hired at XXX hrs...and didn't belong in an airliner", that's not really inconsistent.

Some of the loudest drum-beaters for the ATP rule here, though, pretty much say that they were qualified at low times but they were the exception, so it's a good idea. That's not really inconsistent, just egotistical.

I don't think it's so much that. It's more that if the rules had been different, we would have played by those rules. From an academic perspective, the changes that have been made are good, and I, and many other people have agreed with them in concept since before they were implemented.

The only thing they're not good for are people that want to move fast fast fast up the ladder of this career without too much thought to what it involves as far as gaining experience goes.

 

[Hacker15e]

people that want to move fast fast fast up the ladder of this career without too much thought to what it involves as far as gaining experience goes.

Which, by anecdotal evidence (fair or not), describes the vast majority of the folks at the Regional rung and below, unfortunately.

Mostly due to ignorance...plain ol' not knowing what you don't know.

 

[jtrain609]

Which, by anecdotal evidence (fair or not), describes the vast majority of the folks at the Regional rung and below, unfortunately.

Mostly due to ignorance...plain ol' not knowing what you don't know.

I think it describes a vast majority of people that hold themselves out to be regional pilots that post things on internet message boards.

But I'm not sure how accurate that is.

 

[MercFE]

I guess I'm one of those guys that would eventually like to move fast fast fast up the ladder in the near future. Being around 40 be the time I try to start a pilot career has something to do with that, I suppose. While I think the changes are good, I think that they leave some things to be desired for a person in my, somewhat, rare position.

I do think the additional experience will be good for newly trained pilots. The additional hours will be experience with dealing with aircraft operations and emergencies, not the day-to-day takeoff/landing that most of schooling is based on. Dealing with your first true engine loss or inflight fire can be an eye-opening experience.

I'm just curious how someone in my shoes will be effected. I believe that, prior to the rule changes, one of my selling points on a resume is the 5,000+ hours of Flight Engineer experience, a rare feat in today's world of FE-less ops. I have quite a bit of experience dealing with inflight emergencies and the abnormals that might come up. Going back to get the licenses that says I have the "monkey" skills of flying is the one thing I'm missing.

Now, with the changes, I'll still have to accumulate enough time to gain my ATP to even step foot into a passenger carrying operation. Not that that is truly a goal of mine, cargo or corporate sound so much better. The 5,000 FE hours will account up to 500 PIC toward the ATP under the current rules, hopefully some of that carries over under the new.

Basically, I feel there are other training avenues that lead to similar quality pilots at a reduced amount of time. I wish there was something that reflected that in the new rules.

</rant>

 

[DE727UPS]

F/E time is a lost art but anyone who has gone that route has my mad respect. Your average SJS kiddo couldn't hold a candle to the dedication and maturity it takes to be a career P3 F/E. But I digress.....

Your time is only worth what the FAA says your time is worth. Not much you can do about it. Back in the day the NAS flying clubs were a pretty good deal. I remember Whidbey had cheap prices on Cessna's and club CFI's. Plus you could rent a T34. But that was years ago.

I wish you luck my friend and hope you find your niche.

As to the video from the OP. Guys are attacking this UND dude as clueless. I'll agree he's clueless but you have to understand he's also brainwashed, so to speak. He has bought into the hype of big program flight training. It's no different than ATP or ERAU. They spend a lot of money on BS to get you to sign on with them. Until you hit the real world you have no clue.