CNN Video: Safety Rule Could Create Pilot Shortage
- Thread starter ClearedToThe
- Start date
What difference does his sexual and dress preference make?
White shoes after labor day is not apropos. You're a prep school guy you ought to know that!
White shoes after labor day is not apropos. You're a prep school guy you ought to know that!
Oh BOOM!!! That JUST happened!
Rounds on target!
Oh BOOM!!! That JUST happened!
Rounds on target!
Shack!
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
They do. Aroo?!
One of my good pals/co-workers is a former single-pilot metro dude.
Ah, just talking with some of the Ameriflight guys, it didn't sound like it was common.
crazyjaydawg
Well-Known Member
Not only does it have a GA feature, it also has an upset recovery mode that you just push a button and the thing rights itself straight and level.
I don't think the thing has an autothrottle...yet
In the F-117A, we had what was known as PAARS, or Pilot Activated Automatic Recovery system. When the PAARS button was depressed on the stick, the autopilot and autothrottles engaged (if off), the aircraft recovered itself to the horizon via the closest means available, rolled wings level upright, and established a 5 degree nose-up at 250 knots. Only problem was that in finding the quickest way to the horizon, it didn't know the difference between positive and negative Gs.
The systems was born of a couple of accidents we had in the jet that were attributed to spatial-D. The 117 was VERY easy to get spatial-D in, since:
- because the cockpit was so sealed well, there was no "wind rush" or other aural cues of airspeed.......60 knots sounded like 600 knots. This caused a problem when.....
-.......the pilot was flying, as I spent most of my time heads-down in the IRDS display searching for my target and heavily depended on the autopilot to be doing the flying. Visual lookout was kind of a joke, as there wasn't time to and the plane had crappy viz anyway except for out the sides; but then in combat, that didn't matter. The IRDS did have a small mini-HUD like display in the corner of it that showed aircraft attitude only, but we usually decluttered that since there was already a ton of targeting information we needed to be looking at.
So I can see where a system like this LVL device could come in handy.
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
In the last ten years major airline hiring has not been good for any part of the industry. Factor in the fact that the AMF pilot group is only ≈200 pilots you can see why we don't see much major airline hiring.
I have heard that Delta wants passenger experience these days and obviously cargo does not provide that. Other than purposely flying the plane "smoother" I really don't see the point
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
In the last ten years major airline hiring has not been good for any part of the industry. Factor in the fact that the AMF pilot group is only ≈200 pilots you can see why we don't see much major airline hiring.
I have heard that Delta wants passenger experience these days and obviously cargo does not provide that. Other than purposely flying the plane "smoother" I really don't see the point
It was either Delta or someone else. In the job requirements it was saying jet(ok, they fly different than turbo props I guess), glass(WTF?), FMS(uhhh, sure).
The pax experience I could see solely from the stand point of being in the habit of looking for smoother air, and keeping the mindset that there are additional crew members in back. Freight guys probably don't care. haha
I suppose most AMF guys are looking to go corporate anyways as well. I do know of a few that jumped to the regionals due to "grass is greener" syndrome and maybe a bit of SJS.
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
T-props do fly different but they know how train t-prop guys. There was a time when there was no thing as the "regional jet" and people seemed to do just fine. I agree glass time is kinda stupid. I have glass time and it just made the aircraft super easy to fly. FMSs these days can be downloaded on flight sim. They are actually extremely accurate to the real thing. Learning the FMS would not be hard.
People at AMF do have different goals like you said. That adds to the reason why we don't see much major airline movement. I know a bunch of guys that want to go to XOJet or find a good corporate gig. I would say it is safe to say most regional guys want to go to a major airline.
Some guys do bail to regionals. You could be a great candidate with freight and regional experience for a major. If you can take the pay cut you could be really helping your career. What boggles my mind are the people that leave that don't have their 1000 TPIC yet. It can easily take 5 years or more to upgrade at a regional.
ClearedToThe
Well-Known Member
Haha one can only hope.
pilot329
Well-Known Member
I do want to comment on this thread as I have been following along...it's unfortunate that the accident in Buffalo has occurred causing these changes to be made and my heart goes out to all of those families. You often hear that FARs are "written in blood" and it's terrible when that's the case.
I am a Purdue flight student graduating in May, but also a double-major in something completely non-aviation related. In fact, this new law deterred me from a career in aviation. With little job prospects in the industry and low pay, it is simply no longer worth it. I have opinions on both sides to this issue...I think that the experience a 1500 hour+ pilot has is crucial when it comes to operating large aircraft. Critical decision-making skills only come with both time and experience. On the other hand, a university education does have its advantages when it comes to work ethic and a level of knowledge not as easily obtained elsewhere.
I happen to know the individuals that were interviewed in this video. I don't think it's fair to make fun of them like this as they are trying to be professional in their pursuit of a difficult career such as this. Isn't that what aviation is all about...professionalism? The real issue here is finding better ways for aspiring pilots to fulfill their goals. Universities, such as Purdue, need to change their marketing efforts and build stronger relationships that will allow their students to get the hours necessary that this new law requires. With the ridiculous cost of education and flight fees and the prospect of making $20k upon graduation, these schools need to provide better opportunities for their students. These "kids" also need individuals, such as yourselves, with tremendous amounts of experience and knowledge to look up to for guidance.
Who's going to want to be a pilot anymore? This industry is unique in that those involved love what they do (or at least they should). Pilots love to fly, it's in their DNA...I think we all need to look at this and talk about how to prevent this emotion from being tarnished by changes in the system. Laws are laws, and while we probably can't do much about them, it's important that the community works together to find ways to work with them.
I am a Purdue flight student graduating in May, but also a double-major in something completely non-aviation related. In fact, this new law deterred me from a career in aviation. With little job prospects in the industry and low pay, it is simply no longer worth it. I have opinions on both sides to this issue...I think that the experience a 1500 hour+ pilot has is crucial when it comes to operating large aircraft. Critical decision-making skills only come with both time and experience. On the other hand, a university education does have its advantages when it comes to work ethic and a level of knowledge not as easily obtained elsewhere.
I happen to know the individuals that were interviewed in this video. I don't think it's fair to make fun of them like this as they are trying to be professional in their pursuit of a difficult career such as this. Isn't that what aviation is all about...professionalism? The real issue here is finding better ways for aspiring pilots to fulfill their goals. Universities, such as Purdue, need to change their marketing efforts and build stronger relationships that will allow their students to get the hours necessary that this new law requires. With the ridiculous cost of education and flight fees and the prospect of making $20k upon graduation, these schools need to provide better opportunities for their students. These "kids" also need individuals, such as yourselves, with tremendous amounts of experience and knowledge to look up to for guidance.
Who's going to want to be a pilot anymore? This industry is unique in that those involved love what they do (or at least they should). Pilots love to fly, it's in their DNA...I think we all need to look at this and talk about how to prevent this emotion from being tarnished by changes in the system. Laws are laws, and while we probably can't do much about them, it's important that the community works together to find ways to work with them.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
Which is why a four-year degree, not an aviation four-year degree, is required to work just about anywhere that folks consider a career destination.
(1) Aviation is about making money. Money makes an airplane fly. Or not fly.
(2) Keep in mind that a university is a business. Granted, it's a business with slightly different strategic goals but they're certainly in it to make money.
(3) The best career and financial decision I ever made was to not get an aviation degree.
Since it's quite literally in my DNA*, and I love to fly, I think I should point out: The quality of the flying that I do, and how professional I am in the airplane, is independent of what I'm paid, both at a very fundamental level ("Everyone is doing a great job as evidenced by the lack of large, smoking holes in the ground") and at a "it's the little things" level (slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and other things). It's largely independent of what I'm flying, too. Some of this is because I myself don't want to be uncomfortable, but some of it also comes from the knowledge that there are probably people on board for which this is their first airplane ride (or who are onboard with their children and families...or really just onboard) and it's not just my job, but an ethical duty, to make the flight as safe, comfortable, and efficient (in that order) as is possible.
In other words: the decisions that I make, and the actions that I take (under Captain supervision) are made independently of what I'm paid, and made independently of who employs me and a whole slew of other factors.
We can do LOTS about the law. But arguing against HR5900 is a losing proposition in terms of public image. Most of what's in the bill is a good thing, despite the (rather temporary) inconvenience it may cause to our various careers. It doesn't have what I would consider the best solution (forcing mainline carriers to assume liability for their regional "partners" when those flights are marketed under mainline's ticket code), but it has a lot of good things.
* Third generation.
tl;dr: love the flying, independent of pay.
z987k
Well-Known Member
I would have no problem saying to anyone's face, they need more flight experience than you can possibly have coming out of flight school. You've never even left your backyard so to speak. Even most CFI's with 1500 hours are in for a big awakening when they get into the air carrier world... as most of them have little actual ifr, little hazardous weather, depending on the area of the country, no experience with mountains, probably have never landed in a 40kt+ crosswind. All that glass training isn't all that great of a thing. It is not even remotely hard to fly a glass airplane with dual gps', tcas, synth vision and an autopilot that is all but cat III.
There is no need to do an RJ sim in college, it's a hilarious waste of time IMO, the airline will put you through their's regardless, and then you'll actually learn how to fly the airplane on ioe. If you need 20 hours in a sim before the sim, then your just simply not ready. It is a transition going from thinking at 140kts to thinking at 250kts, one that is easier to make when you've actually mastered all the basics first.
Basically, you don't even know how much you don't know... hell I'm sure I don't still... but thinking back, at 300 hours if they asked me to do what I do now.... I'd have probably ended up a smoking hole or at the least been very unable to get in nearly as much.
The career is really no harder to get into than it was in 2008, or any bust year cycle before that. Go CFI, or check out part 119! There's lots of things you can do to build that time, and in a lot of cases, they'll pay more than the airline gig anyways. I dream of going back to pt 91 flying.
tall doug said:
I very much like that idea.
Speed Pilot
Brain Damaged
Two statements here that need talking about.
Statement one: It is NOT the colleges job to secure a future for their students. Never has been, never should be. Some schools do help with career placement but that is a nicety. It is your job to make your own future. Part of doing that is deciding on a career after some soul searching. Once you have decided on a path that fits your objectives for being successful, it's time to educate yourself on your chosen career. That's where the college or trade school comes in. Once schooling is over, hopefully you've been making contacts and researching companies that you would like to work for. You should have begun the process of getting hired there long before you graduate. Sometimes your timing sucks and all that prep is set back several years by national tragedy or economic slow downs. That's life. You either persevere or you find out that your conviction to pursue a career wasn't as strong as you thought. Those things are not the colleges problem, they are yours. They provided a service that you paid for. Service agreement is concluded and you are on your own. Hell you even got to finance the agreement so you could get it done now instead of waiting till you could pay for it in full upfront before going to college.
Statement two: Everyone here is more than happy to help these new comers for guidance. The problem is when the new guys don't like what all of our "Experience" that they want to get is telling them something that they don't want to hear. So they get pissed and cry like little girls that we got ours and we don't want to see them succeed. The opposite is true. We want them to succeed. Trust me. I've bent over backwards to help some guys on here get jobs or tried to educate people on things they hadn't encountered before. You don't know what you don't know. I learn new stuff all the time. Old timers have taken me under their wing for years and helped me to grow, but I never got mad at them when they told me something I didn't want to hear. I accepted it, learned from it and kept moving towards where I wanted to be.
I like the 1500 hour rule. If nothing else it gets rid of the riff raff that really don't want to sacrifice to be here. I don't want to work with the guy that wants to be a pilot because it's cool. I want to work with the guy that wants to be here and will WORK for it.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
Clearly you haven't ridden on the jumpseat of my airplane (specific to quality of avionics...grr) lately but pretty much. All glass training is sort of silly. You get really good at pushing buttons, but not very good at flying the airplane. Basic attitude instrument flying, the fundamental instrument skill, is largely independent of the presentation, but I sure see lots better BAI out of folks who did NOT learn to fly in a glass airplane.
The best training as far as energy awareness and airmanship I've ever had was tailwheel and aerobatic along with learning how to fly (particularly at the instrument and commercial level) from a somewhat exacting instructor.
I'm non-conventional as far as how I got where I got, but doing some commercial flying (in the sense of moving an airplane for pay, with the purpose of accomplishing a mission) gave me a slightly different perspective than teaching someone else to fly, before getting to where I am now. However you get the experience, though.
(Oh, and dual advanced nav and the gee whiz stuff is really awesome long about hour 5 of day 5 or 6.
)At 300 hours, in the equipment you were probably flying at 300TT, you would be nuts to do what you are doing now too.
As long as it has two engines.
Never happen, but I like it too. (I came up with it, so of course I am biased, but suddenly things would get a whole lot better at a few regionals that must remain nameless. As well as my own, but due to our unique positioning we somewhat do have mainline accepting/assuming direct responsibility and liability for what we do. Somewhat.)
Dude, this is cool, don't sell it short. BUT, that's not the motivation...
z987k
Well-Known Member
I'm non-conventional as far as how I got where I got, but doing some commercial flying (in the sense of moving an airplane for pay, with the purpose of accomplishing a mission) gave me a slightly different perspective than teaching someone else to fly, before getting to where I am now. However you get the experience, though.
(Oh, and dual advanced nav and the gee whiz stuff is really awesome long about hour 5 of day 5 or 6.
Oh tell me about it. Today I've got an autopilot that can almost track a nav course, hold an altitude AND a 430W! I might as well be a passenger!
I'm non-conventional as well. I don't think either of us has a CFI in our pocket.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
z987k
Well-Known Member
The HSI is even slaved to a compass, as opposed to the nav 1 on top of a free vacuum gyro DG that a lot of them have(that precesses about 90* every 10mins). It's pretty damn fancy.Holy crap, I could do your job!
Nope. No CFI. Aerial picture-takers of the world unite!