Clearing the Area & Calling "Clear Left", "Clear Right"

[Hacker15e]

The answer is yes, and don't be difficult for the sake of being difficult.

Not doing anything 'for the sake of being difficult'. It is vitally important to understand precisely what is required and what is technique. That's not being argumentative...that is understanding the regs.

To my knowledge, there was no such requirement...but I asked the question anyway to see if there was something out there I had missed.

How else are you going to clear the area? Cameras? ESP?

I'd like to think that my eyeballs work just fine by using those retangular shaped plastic/plexi items called "windows" to clear. Nowhere in there do I need to make a turn of a particular number of degrees or duration in order to do that.

Believe it or not, not all aircraft have wings that are located directly above or below the side windows of the cabin. Not all aircraft have enormous blind spots that would drive the need to change direction in order to positively clear the area that you are going to maneuver into.

Again, try not doing a clearing turn and report back to us. You are really doing students a disservice if you tell them that it is not required.

Am I? Or am I really making sure that they know the actual requirements, rather than teaching a technique as procedure?

Never did I say that a clearing turn was a bad technique. It's actually a very good one.

It's just not *required*. There's a Grand Canyon's worth of difference between the two.

 

[SteveC]

Am I? Or am I really making sure that they know the actual requirements, rather than teaching a technique as procedure?

Never did I say that a clearing turn was a bad technique. It's actually a very good one.

It's just not *required*. There's a Grand Canyon's worth of difference between the two.

:yeahthat:

Technique versus procedure is often misunderstood.

 

[Polar742]

If it makes anyone feel any better, a buddy of mine checked out recently as a Captain at a Japanese domestic carrier.

In the simulator, before every turn, they had to look outside, say "Clear left" "Clear right".

In a similar mode, when PO first got the -400s, none of the pilots had seen glass before. As a result, there was a procedure put into the training program to call out every mode change on the FMA (Flight Mode Annunciator - where we find out if the automation is doing what we want it to). Of course, once you've flown glass, you know the expected changes, and don't make the callouts online. However, in a training environment, the instructor needs to verify that you comprehend what the machine is doing, and calling it out is about the only way the instructor can note where a mistake was made or you know what's going on.

Good habit patterns take practice to form. Habit patterns, in general, are very difficult to change.

 

[Douglas]

If a student does not do a clearing turn, he will fail. If you don't like it write the FAA and have them change every DPE's mind that I know.
It is an undefined procedure that must be completed. There is you reading a book and then there is the way it is.

 

[Hacker15e]

So, DPEs are determining FAA procedure? I think not.

I think what a DPE would probably tell you, after he busted someone on a checkride, is that it was not the failure to perform the clearing turn that he busted for. He would probably tell you that it was for failing to properly clear prior to the maneuver -- and that there were probably numerous instances during the flight where the pilot failed to properly clear.

Although checkrides are objective, in that there are PTS definitions for maneuvers, the evaluation of those standards falls on a person who must make a subjective decision.

I agree that a clearing turn is an effective, accepted way to visually clear prior to a maneuver. I also agree that Examiners are going to recognize that maneuver as an effective way to clear. There is simply no printed reference, however, that says this is the *only* way to do it. Even more importantly, the test standard itself says in its own wording that there is more than one way to do it (techniques, meaning more than one). If the FAA had intented for a clearing turn of a particular duration and size to be performed, it would have explicitly said it.

As for that second point...that's an interesting belief to have as a professional aviator and as an instructor of new pilots.

For me personally "the book" is the cornerstone of being a professional aviator. Understanding that book's ins-and-outs, understanding which parts use terms like "shall", "will", or "must", and which parts use terms like "may", "can", or "should" -- that is the core of being able to understand the environment in which you live and operate.

On top of that cornerstone live all the techniques that bridge the gap between what's on the printed page and what happens between closing the canopy to go fly and opening it up after you've landed. This is "the way it is" portion.

But, that's just me.

 

[Douglas]

So, DPEs are determining FAA procedure? I think not.

I think so. The DPE is the arm of the FAA. If he says ABC123, it is ABC123. If he gives you salmon slip, it is as good as FAA giving it to you. The subjective areas are all his. You need to follow what he lays out not, "it isn't clearly defined in the book so I don't need to", that won't get you far on a check ride. The +/- 100ft procedures are not his, only his to observe.

I agree that a clearing turn is an effective, accepted way to visually clear prior to a maneuver. I also agree that Examiners are going to recognize that maneuver as an effective way to clear. There is simply no printed reference, however, that says this is the *only* way to do it.

Okay, give me an example of something other than a clearing turn.

As for that second point...that's an interesting belief to have as a professional aviator and as an instructor of new pilots.

Interesting? I am not sure that is the word for it. How about what you are really saying, reckless, irresponsible or imprudent could probably fit there.

Now, think it over and this time in context. This wasn't the ubiquitous "book/real life" statement, though it used the frame work, the message was switched. As you have eloquently pointed out, there is nothing that says a clearing turn must be done in the book BUT the standard real life check ride requires you to do a clearing turn, as it should be above and beyond the FAA requirement.
But thank you for your genuine concern for my students.
Mess with my students and their education and you are starting to hit below the belt.
-----
I personally don't want it to become a hard rule to do clearing turn before ever maneuver. Once it becomes a required task, the examiner can't wave it off.

We both want students to do clearing turns. The last thing you want is for a student on here to bust a check ride and he tries to tell the examiner he used "proper and effective visual scanning techniques to clear the area before and while performing maneuvers." The FAA doesn't define them so how can you (DPE).
That won't fly very far.

So we have developed a standard. 180 degrees.
Get on board.

 

[Hacker15e]

I agree to disagree and yield to your experience teaching and sending students to DPEs.

 

[KLB]

Its been a while since I've instructed, but you don't neccessarily have to do a clearing turn to clear the area during VFR manuevers. If you're doing manuevers (just about all turn atleast 90 degres) and you're looking outside...you should be clearing the area. Most examiners do not make the student clear the area after every manuever because of this.
The best thing to do on checkrides is the ask if they want you to do clearing turns before doing any manuever. Most of the times they say no.

 

[Douglas]

I didn't see that coming...You are one of a kind hacker.
Agreed to disagree.

 

[TXaviator]

my question has always been this...

how exactly does a turn clear the area for you??

lets say youre in a high wing plane, and someone is trailing you at your 7'o'clock...

you initiate a 90 degree turn to the left, and cross into their flightpath and they mid-air you.

how did this help you???? turning your head and using the windows would have allowed you to see the traffic before yanking the plane onto a new course....

 

[Holocene]

my question has always been this...

how exactly does a turn clear the area for you??

lets say youre in a high wing plane, and someone is trailing you at your 7'o'clock...

you initiate a 90 degree turn to the left, and cross into their flightpath and they mid-air you.

how did this help you???? turning your head and using the windows would have allowed you to see the traffic before yanking the plane onto a new course....

I tend to agree with this. Kind of like, shouldn't a clearing turn be required prior to initiating a clearing turn?

In all seriousness, I honestly don't remember doing a "clearing turn" during my checkride. I had always been under the impression that if you could visually scan the area as the maneuvers were performed, there would not be an issue.

 

[Roger, Roger]

One of the big things that a clearing turn does is make you easier to see. I know that there have been lots of times in the pattern when I haven't seen someone until they lifted a wing turning base/final. having that wing area visible makes it a lot easier to pick out traffic.

 

[germb747]

The best thing to do on checkrides is the ask if they want you to do clearing turns before doing any manuever. Most of the times they say no.

And I would say, if I were the examiner, "I'm just evaluating you. You're the PIC, so the decision is yours and you get to live with the consequences".

Everybody knows how to play the checkride game. There's no rush, so maybe that clearing turn is just the time you need to think about how you're going to set up the next maneuver (while you're clearing, of course). Make sure the examiner know you're clearing, by overkill if you have to. One of the closest midairs I ever had was on my initial CFI checkride with the feds--I thought I had busted for sure but surprisingly not and I guess it's because he knew I was actively attempting to clear even though I just didn't see the guy until he was really damn close.

I always thought of steep turns as "self clearing", but you definitely want to clear the airspace around and below you before you do any stalls/spins, etc.

 

[Bandit_Driver]

And I would say, if I were the examiner, "I'm just evaluating you. You're the PIC, so the decision is yours and you get to live with the consequences".

Everybody knows how to play the checkride game. There's no rush, so maybe that clearing turn is just the time you need to think about how you're going to set up the next maneuver (while you're clearing, of course). Make sure the examiner know you're clearing, by overkill if you have to. One of the closest midairs I ever had was on my initial CFI checkride with the feds--I thought I had busted for sure but surprisingly not and I guess it's because he knew I was actively attempting to clear even though I just didn't see the guy until he was really damn close.

I always thought of steep turns as "self clearing", but you definitely want to clear the airspace around and below you before you do any stalls/spins, etc.

:yeahthat: