CJC MEC FastRead - Role of Merger Committee

Ill take PQI...its a one legger from BOS on company saab.

As for SLI..no sense even thinking or arguing about that until we see what is in store. While no one will likely "win" no one will "lose" either. Unfortunately it will be a sad day at at all companies because we have 3 number "1's" and in the end there will only be 1. I know a few of the top ten at Colgan that will shed many tears over the possibility of falling back to top 60 in a 3000 pilot list.
 
Honestly, it doesn't matter where you are in the overall seniority list that much, only where you are in your domicile. The #1 guy at 9E doesn't affect my bidding on a monthly basis. He's ATL based. Now, if we both wanted to go to JFK, then he would affect me, but that's really it.

After hearing some of the options for the SLI, my head wanted to spin around until it launched off my shoulders.
 
kellwolf said:
Honestly, it doesn't matter where you are in the overall seniority list that much, only where you are in your domicile. The #1 guy at 9E doesn't affect my bidding on a monthly basis. He's ATL based. Now, if we both wanted to go to JFK, then he would affect me, but that's really it.

After hearing some of the options for the SLI, my head wanted to spin around until it launched off my shoulders.
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What have you guys heard on your end regarding the SLI? We haven't heard a whole lot regarding the SLI, just the usual crew room bull that you always hear.
 
If you are hearing "options" you are hearing speculation. The merger committees haven't even certified lists yet at their respective carriers. The JCBA is on the front burner, until there is at a minimum of a TA Sli is only a discussion piece with nothing behind it.
 
higney85 said:
If you are hearing "options" you are hearing speculation. The merger committees haven't even certified lists yet at their respective carriers. The JCBA is on the front burner, until there is at a minimum of a TA Sli is only a discussion piece with nothing behind it.
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Yup. There has only been a "this is how it will roll" meeting. Otherwise nothing official has taken place. If you are hearing something, it's rumors.
 
higney85 said:
If you are hearing "options" you are hearing speculation. The merger committees haven't even certified lists yet at their respective carriers. The JCBA is on the front burner, until there is at a minimum of a TA Sli is only a discussion piece with nothing behind it.
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Actually I believe that all the reps from both companies sat down (I can't remember where but it was with national) for meetings on SLI, with national folks and described ways of dealing with our SLI. One of the things brought up was a hybrid list. I guess it's speculating, speculating on valid ways to integrate.

Either way, Mesaba reps position from email's is that we have bigger issues than SLI right now. JCBA, I assume, being it.
 
jynxyjoe said:
Actually I believe that all the reps from both companies sat down (I can't remember where but it was with national) for meetings on SLI, with national folks and described ways of dealing with our SLI. One of the things brought up was a hybrid list. I guess it's speculating, speculating on valid ways to integrate.

Either way, Mesaba reps position from email's is that we have bigger issues than SLI right now. JCBA, I assume, being it.
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Are you referring to the meeting with legal where they learned from past experience (in the legal field) of past merger, precedent, what worked, and what turned into a disaster. Actual ways of merging lists is total speculation at this point, no matter who you heard it from.
 
jynxyjoe said:
Actually I believe that all the reps from both companies sat down (I can't remember where but it was with national) for meetings on SLI, with national folks and described ways of dealing with our SLI. One of the things brought up was a hybrid list. I guess it's speculating, speculating on valid ways to integrate.

Either way, Mesaba reps position from email's is that we have bigger issues than SLI right now. JCBA, I assume, being it.
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The meeting last week in Herndon was a 5 hours presentation by National. They went over certain parts of the ALPA Merger and Fragmentation policy and had a couple people speak about how we should try and keep things civil between us, doing so will produce more in the end.

ALPA National has to keep a hands off and neutral position, they can not seem like they are picking sides. Because of this they are not able to give any pointers on what to do with our merger, no details were or will be given by National. Basically mommy and daddy have to let the kids work it out for themselves.
 
higney85 said:
Are you referring to the meeting with legal where they learned from past experience (in the legal field) of past merger, precedent, what worked, and what turned into a disaster. Actual ways of merging lists is total speculation at this point, no matter who you heard it from.
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It was a rather long pdf file which if I can find again I will. If I understand correctly, everyone at Colgan, Pinnacle, and Mesaba are getting the same pdf's right? Those with email I should say?

If no one else here remembers anything in those pdf's about SLI and possible avenues then it probably wasn't there. Some ways listed off by people, and these are ways to merge lists not the way we are pursuing;
  • Relative Seniority
  • 10% step
  • DOH
  • Hybrid

In other words, those are possible ways to merge a list, correct or no? I'm not saying we are merging any part of the list now, and I know SLI comes after the flipping JCBA, I have the bubble chart and everything in front of me.

I'm not asking you to speculate, I'm just asking if those above are in fact ways in which a list could be merged.
 
The PDF's that have gone out discussed a roadmap. I have not even heard of the 10% step idea and I have been "in the loop" since the beginning. The factors in play involve longevity (aka DOH) and relative seniority. Anything involving a mix would be a hybrid (even a "10% step" that I have not even heard about). The negotiations for a merged sli cannot and will not start until a JCBA, anything heard otherwise is rumor and speculation.
 
Joe can you expand on the 10% thing? I have not heard about that either. The other three on the other hand have been discussed in a group setting. As the others have said nothing is happening until the JCBA.
 
I'm curious. It seems like a knee jerk reaction from everyone on here to say, "pay no attention to the SLI." I wonder if it would serve your purposes more to detail the contractual information out now rather than to tell everyone not to look ahead. Some of us have read the information that has come out, and have moved on. Maybe if we had more to grab our attention (actual language), we'd stop jumping ahead. I don't know if the broken record method is going to work on me or anyone else who reads and does math at or above a 5th grade level. Especially when we all have the SL's.

Quite frankly, I don't have any real contract meat in front of me (except my current contract) but I've got all the lists and I can punch up spreadsheets just fine. Every time I hear, "don't jump ahead", I wonder what the screaming is about. So I just keep reading the lists and playing with different math functions.

amorris311 said:
Joe can you expand on the 10% thing? I have not heard about that either. The other three on the other hand have been discussed in a group setting. As the others have said nothing is happening until the JCBA.
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This was something brought up to me on a sit in MSP a week or so ago. I hate talking about it like I understand the whole thing, but I did a few samples on my seniority spread sheets for the guy who wanted me to do it. Basically take the top 10% of the seniority list treat it as a separate list, and merge it up by relative seniority method, then step down to the next 10% and repeat. This seemed like a silly method to me.

Mathematically, it seemed the end result was the same as just doing this list all at once and any differences was because I did yearly rounding on my seniority list spreadsheets.

The guy explained it to me well enough, however, I wasn't able to express it very well in my math formulas (excellese or java). Unfortunately I'm limited in my programming knowledge and I still can't get my head around doing it 10% at a time is different than doing the whole list at once.

Unfortunately I think I've given you more questions than answers but feel free to run with it.
 
BE19Pilot said:
Career expectations are also supposed to play a part with SLI also, but I am not sure how that plays out?
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Career expectations is one of 3 examples used in integration but the policy clearly states that the integration menthod(s) being used is not limited to that. At the end of the day it will involve many joint methods in order to result in a fair and equitable merge.

Remember, that the MEC's have ZERO say in how or what methodology will be used in merging the lists. So if you hear from a Rep on a sit that they like a certain method, dont go home and crunch the lists to see where you come out.
 
You can punch the 9E seniority list all day long and it will be wrong every time. See, the 9E list is DOH only. The list is comprised from seniority date (day we started class) but only DOH is used on the list currently. Current and past practice at Pinnacle is that you aren't an employee until you pass your checkride. That results in a 2-4 month difference in the list vs. seniority date that both MSA and CJC have. The company and merger committee are having the difficult task of figuring out when pilots actually started class. It's an easy calculation from those hired in the electronic age, but for many at the top of the list (prior to all electronic forms) time is having to be spent to figure out the correct date for a seniority list (for Sli purposes). That list isn't even done by the committee, so I know for a fact it's not "out there".

Hope that clears it up.
 
The "options" I was referring to are just possibilities. Like Ken said, nothing has been decided, and it likely won't be for many months to come. If XJ MEC guys are going around saying they know what's up, we're either about to get stabbed in the back, or they're just blowing steam. My bet is it's the second option. Either that or someone's heard an MEC person (or extrapolated from an e-mail), got it into their head that THAT is the way it's gonna be and it's been launched into the ionosphere by crew room gossip.

I'm skeptical that the JCBA will be done in 45 days. I'm not even concerning myself with any kind of SLI at this point.
 
higney85 said:
You can punch the 9E seniority list all day long and it will be wrong every time. See, the 9E list is DOH only. The list is comprised from seniority date (day we started class) but only DOH is used on the list currently. Current and past practice at Pinnacle is that you aren't an employee until you pass your checkride. That results in a 2-4 month difference in the list vs. seniority date that both MSA and CJC have. The company and merger committee are having the difficult task of figuring out when pilots actually started class. It's an easy calculation from those hired in the electronic age, but for many at the top of the list (prior to all electronic forms) time is having to be spent to figure out the correct date for a seniority list (for Sli purposes). That list isn't even done by the committee, so I know for a fact it's not "out there".

Hope that clears it up.
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Yeah, I guess I just don't see how a 2-4 month jump really kills anything on my end. However, I'm not looking for my exact seniority number just an idea where the numbers fall out. The lists are pretty diverse.

Also 2-4 months doesn't change the fact the median seniority for the top half of the pinnacle list is 6 years, as opposed to 11 years on the Mesaba side. Nor does it change the reverse phenomenon on the bottom half of the seniority list for the two companies.

I haven't run many numbers on the Colgan side because it's so junior to either Pinnacle or Mesaba. I figure that'll come in time when I better understand how they fit into the "one list".
 
kellwolf said:
The "options" I was referring to are just possibilities. Like Ken said, nothing has been decided, and it likely won't be for many months to come. If XJ MEC guys are going around saying they know what's up, we're either about to get stabbed in the back, or they're just blowing steam. My bet is it's the second option. Either that or someone's heard an MEC person (or extrapolated from an e-mail), got it into their head that THAT is the way it's gonna be and it's been launched into the ionosphere by crew room gossip.

I'm skeptical that the JCBA will be done in 45 days. I'm not even concerning myself with any kind of SLI at this point.
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Blowing off steam? Sure. XJ reps or MEC's saying "they know what's up," I haven't had any say that to me. They've been very clear in saying, however, that SLI is not something on the table right now and the JCBA is.

In July, things were pretty heated, now everyone is pretty laid back (in comparison) in the crew rooms. One thing that helps guys is hearing they can use some logic when putting the lists together. A hybrid plan, as a possibility, makes everyone feel a little less cornered.

When we hear funny or weird things we pass it around to each other, for instance, a couple Colgan new hires telling Mesaba folks in their class that Mesaba would be stapled. Conversely funny stories are told about Mesaba guys or Pinnacle guys saying something ignorant. I don't think people hear those stories and say, "THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE PLANNING SEE!>??!?!!". I think they are saying, "Hey wanna hear something that made me laugh?"
 
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