Civil Air Patrol
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trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
Ain't no such thing as free flying 
Sent from 1865 by telegraph....
Sent from 1865 by telegraph....
A150K
Well-Known Member
I don't think all that much. I think they allow you to use their plane for currency and proficiency only and typically, they charge a dry hourly rate. Atleast that's what they do here. I'm personally not a huge fan of CAP in my area...I've witnessed far too much stupidity and incompetance in their flying/attitude.
TwoTwoLeft
o- - - - - - -l
Same here. I don't know what's happening with in CAP, but the quality of pilots seems to be on the decline... I've flown with a a few of the them here and there and all I can think is, "REALLY??? And they let you fly missions????"
A150K
Well-Known Member
Around here the mission pilots were ok, but the sqadron hasn't even flown a mission for awhile, so they all left. Now it's just the weekend guys. I think the idea is good, but up and coming pilots don't need incoherent old dudes in flight suites to mentor them, they need competent pilots.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Your mileage is going to vary. Some units fly a crapton, some none at all. Some are full of aging military wannabes, and some have some genuinely pretty decent people who know aviation and dig going on an ELT hunt once in a while. While if you stumble upon one of the good units, you might get a decent amount of "free" (or at least absurdly cheap) flying, be aware that you'll have to jump through hoops to get it (e.g, wear uniforms that vary from tolerable to flamingly dorky, put up with obnoxious fools who try to run a volunteer organization like it's the USMC, get called at 2 AM to go look for some incompetent weekend warriors ELT after he had a hard landing) but if you find the right unit and put some decent effort into it you'll be rewarded.
rframe
pǝʇɹǝʌuı
What he said.
It totally depends on the squadron. Each has it's own personality (or lack thereof) and focus. In some places they aren't used for SAR much anymore, in other areas they're used quite a bit. In select units they do additional Air Force auxiliary work, like flying decoy for practice intercepts and flying the Surrogate Predator missions. Some squads dont even have an airplane. It depends upon the relationships the unit has built with partnering agencies.
Usually, the only way you get "free" flight time is if you're assigned an Air Force mission number, then the money Congress allocates to CAP missions is used. That normally happens if ATC contacts the Air Force Rescue Coordination Center and they open a mission for SAR on a missing aircraft or someone picks up an ELT somewhere. Some units also fly SAR in support of other agencies, like ours here will assist with Sheriff, State Police, and Forest Service rescue efforts. CAP will send one or more planes for an aerial search and direct ground units. Generally cadets can participate in varying degrees on searches but they obviously try to keep them back from the accident site away from dead people and body parts and nastiness.
Pretty much anything else (training and doing cadet orientation flights) is going to be on your own dime, though it's less than you'd typically rent a 182 for from an FBO.
To qualify as a pilot you must have a small number of hours, I think it's something like 80-100, and that lets you fly CAP airplanes that you have been checked out in (they have a formal process for this), but there isnt much you can do. You can rent them for training, currency, and check ride usage but you cannot carry any non-CAP passengers or even CAP passengers on non-CAP flights, so it's not going to be your primary ride or a way to haul the family on vacation. Basically you can do training flights and you can give CAP cadets 'orientation' flights. There "might" be budget for the cadet flights so you're not paying for those, but in many cases the pilots are footing the bill and doing it to contribute to the experience of the cadets.
You cannot be a mission pilot unless you have somewhere around 200'ish hours, and you must go through training and qualification as a spotter first, then as a mission pilot, then you might get called for SAR if the timing works out right. There's a lot of bureaucracy and things typically move slow. Most planes in the lower 48 are 182's, with a few 206's in higher density altitude areas, and a couple Airvans in some parts.
The unit commander here is very experienced in CAP and the SAR community and has no interest in pilots who want to join up to just go fly... but, if you do want to participate in the squad activities and contribute overall, then they're welcoming, but they've had plenty of guys show up who think they're just going to hop in a 182 and get called to go flying on someone else's dime... not so well received.
Ours also has a lot of older retired military guys, some no longer able to fly, but for the most part they're very nice and are there to contribute something to the community.
As Roger said, some units really think they're military and are wound up pretty tight, others are a fun youth group for local kids, most are something in between... it just depends on what you have.
A150K
Well-Known Member
I had that happen once on my first night currency after getting my PPL (almost 2 years ago, time fly's by...)
. Luckily, the crappy radio bled through so bad that I heard it on the CTAF freq and was able to crawl into the back of the plane (C150) to turn it off after I pulled up to the ramp.
pnwchief22
Well-Known Member
You should look at capmembers.com for information on CAP pilot minimums and visit a squadron nearby on a regular meeting night for the "meet and greet" with the existing aircrews. I have been flying in Washington about 5 years & maintain a CAP membership / after 700+ hours I have not committed to be a mission pilot (prefer observer, so I can watch the terrain).
Others here are correct, if you join a custodial squadron (has an aircraft assigned) you could expect low cost flying opportunities after you are form 5 qualified. Rule #1 the aircraft is corp. owned. All of regulation 60-1 deals with when & who can fly for corporation.
BTW my 150 is cheaper to fly than the corp. 182's except when we have funded missions (actual Search, Etc)
Others here are correct, if you join a custodial squadron (has an aircraft assigned) you could expect low cost flying opportunities after you are form 5 qualified. Rule #1 the aircraft is corp. owned. All of regulation 60-1 deals with when & who can fly for corporation.
BTW my 150 is cheaper to fly than the corp. 182's except when we have funded missions (actual Search, Etc)
TheTopBloke
Member
CAP is a joke.
Until, of course, you need them.
Kind of like Ice Cube and Dr. Dre singing "(expletive) Tha Police" but who are they going to call when there's tweaker at the front door? The police!
TheTopBloke
Member
Until, of course, you need them.
Kind of like Ice Cube and Dr. Dre singing "(expletive) Tha Police" but who are they going to call when there's tweaker at the front door? The police!
You should repost that in the gun thread I bet they'll get a good laugh.
But seriously, Based on my experience with CAP I wouldn't count on 'em anyway.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
I think I'm banned from making any comments regarding CAP.
Mark815
Well-Known Member
x2, almost had a mid air once while I was on the downwind in the pattern. They were off freq flying OPPOSITE direction at pattern alt while I was on the downwind. I finally got a hold of them and they said they were "On a training mission". That's only 1 of the numerous run ins I've had with CAP.
I don't see myself ever needing CAP. In my experience with them, they're military wannabes, or former military who didn't get to fly and are now flying "Charlie One Seventy Twos". I'm sure there are some good guys in it, but there was one time a CAP airplane just landed at our home airport and it was perfect timing because we actually needed them then and there. A mom came running in the FBO frantic with one child, saying she is missing the other. She asked if we could call the police because apparently they were on a bike ride around the airport, and she looked back and he was gone, and she thought he got lost on one of the many roads that border the airport, leading to farm land. We got on the radio and asked the CAP guy if he could go up and do a couple passes of the area and see if he could spot the kid. His response? "Oh sorry, I'm not trained for that, I'd be more than happy to taxi around though and see if he's on the airport". We couldn't believe it and one of our CFIs grabbed a Warrior and went up with a student to find him. About 10 minutes later he radioed in that he spotted him a couple miles away lost within dirt roads in a farmers field. Police got the report and went to get him.
The cadet program is a large part of CAP, so all adult members must be vetted, submit a set of fingerprints (usually obtained through a local police department) and participate in the Cadet Protection Program.
Although I knew some exceptional pilots and leaders in CAP, as Roger mentioned in post 6 above, there are far too many who will argue all day long about the uniform regs, that it's legal to fly in a bright blue, short-sleeved overall known as the Smurf Suit (instead of green Nomex), and that being 100 pounds overweight is also OK (sorry to leave you with such a horrible visual!).
But if I'm lying in a mountain pass - trapped in the wreckage of my airplane - and a 300 pound guy in a Smurf suit finds me, I suppose that I'm OK with that.
Although I knew some exceptional pilots and leaders in CAP, as Roger mentioned in post 6 above, there are far too many who will argue all day long about the uniform regs, that it's legal to fly in a bright blue, short-sleeved overall known as the Smurf Suit (instead of green Nomex), and that being 100 pounds overweight is also OK (sorry to leave you with such a horrible visual!).
But if I'm lying in a mountain pass - trapped in the wreckage of my airplane - and a 300 pound guy in a Smurf suit finds me, I suppose that I'm OK with that.
Douglas
Old School KSUX
YMMV, but in my experience no.
I didn't join for flight time though or to really be a memeber.
I joined to have access to a part 141 flight school.
Even if you do get some flight time, the hours you volunteer into the organization really doesn't make your brain think, "free".
I didn't join for flight time though or to really be a memeber.
I joined to have access to a part 141 flight school.
Even if you do get some flight time, the hours you volunteer into the organization really doesn't make your brain think, "free".
rframe
pǝʇɹǝʌuı
USAFRCC doesn't ask your preferences when they launch a search.
Of course, if you're a loaded billionaire who likes to go on risky adventures around the world, you can pay premiums to a private SAR organization who will monitor your location and send former SEAL's to rappel in and rescue you from whatever goofy situation you get into... it's "really affordable", check into it.
But other than that, you most likely get volunteers who've set aside other things they could be doing to try to lend a helping hand.
CAP members are not permitted to initiate their own searches, they can only provide services under specific approved purposes and every flight must be pre-approved with a release.
Should a decent human being do it anyway in that case and risk getting in trouble? I would, but that's just me.
JOEFRIDAY2
Well-Known Member
The CAP doesn't go and chase ELT's any longer. They stopped doing that several years ago.
With that being said, your best bet is to visit your local CAP (senior or composite squadron if you are over 18) and plan on attending at least 4 meetings before you decide to join.
Although I am no longer in CAP, I do believe it offers some opportunities and I do recommend that pilots at least check it out and make their own decision. You can obtain some low cost flight time and you can stay proficient if you have your ratings. The biggest benefit I found at CAP was the networking. I know many folks that obtained jobs from their CAP connections. There are some pretty well connected people in CAP.
Joe
With that being said, your best bet is to visit your local CAP (senior or composite squadron if you are over 18) and plan on attending at least 4 meetings before you decide to join.
Although I am no longer in CAP, I do believe it offers some opportunities and I do recommend that pilots at least check it out and make their own decision. You can obtain some low cost flight time and you can stay proficient if you have your ratings. The biggest benefit I found at CAP was the networking. I know many folks that obtained jobs from their CAP connections. There are some pretty well connected people in CAP.
Joe
ShyFlyer
CAP Member
When I was part of a squadron that had an aircraft, the pilots never had to pay out of pocket for "official business" flights like Cadet O-Rides or flights to get members trained and mission qualified. There were almost always money in some account to get that done. The biggest issue was getting the flights scheduled since it was always "Oh, I have to work that day..." or something like that. This is a volunteer organization, after all.
You can "rent" the aircraft, but there are many restrictions on what you can do with the aircraft. Many times it is cheaper than FBO rates, sometimes not. Another option that hasn't been mentioned yet is access to an Aero Club at an Air Force Base. As an active CAP member, I can join the Aero Club here at Kirtland AFB and play with their toys. When I can afford it, that is. Last time I checked, the Aero Club was cheaper than the local FBOs.
If you're looking for a time building, CAP isn't the place to do it.
And yes, there are tools in the organization. We make fun of them too and try to "encourage" them to go away.
You can "rent" the aircraft, but there are many restrictions on what you can do with the aircraft. Many times it is cheaper than FBO rates, sometimes not. Another option that hasn't been mentioned yet is access to an Aero Club at an Air Force Base. As an active CAP member, I can join the Aero Club here at Kirtland AFB and play with their toys. When I can afford it, that is. Last time I checked, the Aero Club was cheaper than the local FBOs.
If you're looking for a time building, CAP isn't the place to do it.
And yes, there are tools in the organization. We make fun of them too and try to "encourage" them to go away.